New Homes (Solar Generation) Bill Shot down.

[Fintray]

but it hasn't been edited...
Fintray was pointing out that it should have said
" They'd rather Consumers [i.e. us rather than the utility companies] pay wind companies vast fortunes to turn off their turbines when it is windy than pay consumers to use the excess."

That is exactly what I meant Why do we let it happen

[Swwils]

Counter argument to wide scale solar in the UK is the capacity factor.

If only energy was cheap, maybe some kind of spicy rocks that could be used for it.

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist. However there is no reason for energy to be expensive what with the price of solar panels and the aforementioned knowledge of magic rocks!

There is a lot going on in the UK energy markets that doesn't make sense to me:
- They'd rather pay FF companies vast fortunes to generate power when the wind doesn't blow than pay consumers to use less.
- They'd rather pay wind companies vast fortunes to turn off their turbines when it is windy than pay consumers to use the excess.

It's a commodity market, that's how it works.

[Stinsy]

Counter argument to wide scale solar in the UK is the capacity factor.

If only energy was cheap, maybe some kind of spicy rocks that could be used for it.

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist. However there is no reason for energy to be expensive what with the price of solar panels and the aforementioned knowledge of magic rocks!

There is a lot going on in the UK energy markets that doesn't make sense to me:
- They'd rather pay FF companies vast fortunes to generate power when the wind doesn't blow than pay consumers to use less.
- They'd rather pay wind companies vast fortunes to turn off their turbines when it is windy than pay consumers to use the excess.

It's a commodity market, that's how it works.

The market isn’t working if they’d rather pay a FF company £1/kWh to generate than pay a consumer 25p/kWh not to consume!

[Yuff]

And they want as all to drive EVs but if you can’t charge at home they are happy to rip everyone off and inconvenience them hugely…..
Mind you garages have been doing this for years……..

[John_S]

Apologies. It read ok with consumers where it was, so I thought it had been edited. but I am dyslexic.

[Stinsy]

Apologies. It read ok with consumers where it was, so I thought it had been edited. but I am dyslexic.

It was OK with consumers as it was, and communicated the point I was making.

However Fin wanted to point out that additionally, it was us consumers who were paying the FF companies extortionate prices to pollute and us consumers who were paying the wind turbines to turn off...

The point was subtle and the semantics made it potentially confusing.

[Moxi]

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist. However there is no reason for energy to be expensive what with the price of solar panels and the aforementioned knowledge of magic rocks!

There is a lot going on in the UK energy markets that doesn't make sense to me:
- They'd rather pay FF companies vast fortunes to generate power when the wind doesn't blow than pay consumers to use less.
- They'd rather pay wind companies vast fortunes to turn off their turbines when it is windy than pay consumers to use the excess.

It's a commodity market, that's how it works.

The market isn’t working if they’d rather pay a FF company £1/kWh to generate than pay a consumer 25p/kWh not to consume!

Thats the flaw with the idea that private equity will spend millions to build generating plant and then wait patiently for the "scraps from the table" its a plain fact that if you build a generator you want your investment back and you want your profits. This is why its better for the investors to build renewable generation and chase a guaranteed return and leave any shortfall generation to a nationalised provider. Then you can incentivise people to save power.

As you say the free market model isnt fit for purpose under the current reimbursement mechanisms.

Moxi

[Stinsy]

It's a commodity market, that's how it works.

The market isn’t working if they’d rather pay a FF company £1/kWh to generate than pay a consumer 25p/kWh not to consume!

Thats the flaw with the idea that private equity will spend millions to build generating plant and then wait patiently for the "scraps from the table" its a plain fact that if you build a generator you want your investment back and you want your profits. This is why its better for the investors to build renewable generation and chase a guaranteed return and leave any shortfall generation to a nationalised provider. Then you can incentivise people to save power.

As you say the free market model isnt fit for purpose under the current reimbursement mechanisms.

Moxi

So, a bit like ho the BoE is "lender of last resort" a government owned-and-maintained FF plant could be "Generator of last resort"?

[Moxi]

Its the only way I can see it working really, we the consumer still end up paying for the power and the infrastructure BUT it removes the last generator sets the unit cost element and allows the bulk generation market to become more competitive. There must be other ways and possibly better ways too to manage this but based on what we have at present it should move the market closer to a consumer beneficial model where the companies get a defined return on their investment and we get competitive power generation for say 95% of our power requirements.

Moxi

edited to remove spurious text at start of comment

[Moxi]

Given the governments proclivity for nuclear they might decide that SMR's are their preferred generation model rather than FF but that depends on that technologies ability to respond quickly - its a possibility though |I suppose. If I were planning it though I think I would have considered a fast breeder reactor, that way you could operate it to transmute radioactive waste most of the time so its fully operational and running doing a job, then when you expect to need it for generation adjust the control rods and the neutron flux and bring the boilers online and bring the turbine up to standby ready to synchronise.

That way you have an asset doing a much needed job that can switch over to generation within the typical timelines that we need, you could also breed fuel at other times for sale internationally or to run the FBR.

Moxi