Recycling of PV panels article

[Mr Gus]

Back on topic, how much of a deal could local councils get for solar farm do-overs? such as creating shaded areas adjoining windows of the local school, forming cover"academed walkways, allowing them to insulate the outer walls & give it cover? ..shaded outdoor teaching areas,

Cheaply for sure, but that is now never going to happen as the schools have been handed lock stock & barrel to private business acadamies.

An opportunity to upgrade schools & offset costs very cheaply indeed whilst setting up like for like infrastructure for the eventual panel replacement through degradation, providing they don't merely speculate ala bbc on a blinkered "25 year lifespan" ..jeez a solar bike store would be cheap considering the framework & no costly specialist plastic roofing, likely bigger than your average roof set up in one fell swoop.
So many countryside bus shelters (this way are now hooked into the mains for the led "next bus" board, you may as well incentivise local councils to go the whole hog where it is deemed safe.

[Ken]

I would like to know why the panels have been scrapped. I suspect that in the UK our temps are very much kinder to PV panels.

I have noticed a slight degredation of my panels of c 4% over 11yrs.

Panels have not got that much more more efficient although they appear to have as the panels have got bigger and therefore their quoted output is more.

I fail to see why anyone would replace a working system.

I suspect systems get scrapped because one panel/or the inverter fails and some installer takes the easy way more profitable route to scrap the lot thinking who knows another panel will not fail and they will get the blame. Anyway can one even tell which panel is causing the problem if they affect the whole string.

[Mr Gus]

Which means, a simple days "certificate of attendance" training by a local council could sort a person who can appraise solar problems in the first instance within systems, ..which is cheap as chips (but unlikely to happen bearing in mind my council BEV charger post saga of "doing nothing is cheaper" lazy @rse performance.

[Mart]

I would like to know why the panels have been scrapped. I suspect that in the UK our temps are very much kinder to PV panels.

I have noticed a slight degredation of my panels of c 4% over 11yrs.

Panels have not got that much more more efficient although they appear to have as the panels have got bigger and therefore their quoted output is more.

I fail to see why anyone would replace a working system.

I suspect systems get scrapped because one panel/or the inverter fails and some installer takes the easy way more profitable route to scrap the lot thinking who knows another panel will not fail and they will get the blame. Anyway can one even tell which panel is causing the problem if they affect the whole string.

Ken, strange question, but something is tickling away at my memory - are your panels a different type to mono-Si? For some reason I have it in my head that they are a type of thin-film. Sorry if I'm going mad.


Regarding size and efficiency, it's actually both. Looking at the more common, reasonably priced panels (so avoiding more expensive extremes (then and now)), efficiency has gone up from around 15% a decade (or so) ago, to about 20% now. That may only appear to be a 5% increase, but in output, it's a 33% increase.

For comparison, our 2011 install has 235Wp panels of 1.6m by 1m (the classic size), and the 2012 panels are 250Wp with 1.6m by 1.05m.

Today I can buy cheap 370Wp panels (£124 + VAT), which are 1.77m by 1.05m. So 10.6% larger than the 250Wp, but 48% more output.

Or for £115 + VAT, a 410Wp panel slightly larger at 1.722m by 1.134m, so 19.5% larger, with 64% more output.


Edit - Sorry, this was in response to why would you replace an existing system. I've actually considered replacing my 5 235Wp panels with something like I've mentioned, as the panels are on a low roof, or act as a back door canopy, so easy access. This would add about 0.75kWp, and the inverter has head room, for additional capacity. What has stopped me, is that they have Solaredge optimisers, so I'd need to get new ones for the larger panels, so not worth the faff. But that's an example of upgrading, now that panels are so cheap, and more powerful.

[Ken]

Mart,
Yes they are CIGS thin film panels by Solar Frontier (gone bust). They maximised FITS because they had a + and - production tolrance unlike most panels having only a minus tolerance so thats what you get.

The efficiency gains are greater than i thought.

Where do you see those prices as at those i might expand my present system.

[Mart]

Hiya Ken, I found those prices with a quick Google search for solar panel suppliers. Should have said, that they are trade prices, but openly displayed. Found another site offering 425Wp at £147 (Ex VAT), saying 'discounts for trade', so that's presumably a price you and I could get. I also assume there many folk on here who know how to get better prices, I've not gone past page 1 of the search results.

Happy to post a link, but not sure if that breaks any forum rules? I know this site is different as it's not linked to a company, but if anyone can confirm if good faith posts, simply as an example, are OK, then I'd appreciate that.

Thought of sending you a PM, but that might be naughty too ..... I'm probably being paranoid ......

CIGS, yes now I remember, I think you kindly gave me some info back in 2012, when I was looking for expansion ideas.

So, I went back to that degradation report, and the annex shows 1.44% and 0.96% pa degradation for pre and post 2000 CIGS installs respectively. So, like the mono-Si figures, it looks like you are doing way better than that too. As mentioned before though, that report is dated 2012, so the 'post 2000' panels that were tested would still be an older average age than our installs, so looks like things have improved, and perhaps UK weather is gentle on PV?



The efficiency gains are often overlooked, as the 15% to 20% change (for example), does initially look like a small 5% gain. It kinda snuck up on me, until I noticed that most installs being discussed on the MSE forum, were using 330Wp(ish) panels, and the penny dropped. This was a few years ago, and I seem to now be seeing that panel sizes have snuck up too, from the old classic of 1.6m by 1m.

If the Perovskite/Silicon tandem cells become viable later this decade, then something like 30% and growing, for the same cost per Wp* as Mono-Si, will be incredible. Of course the downside may be the replacement of huge amounts of older PV panels, but fingers crossed that they will get a charitable second life rather than scrapping.

*Just to clarify, so I don't mislead, this doesn't mean the same price as the less powerful panel, but that the cost increase is proportional to Mono-Si, not excessive. So, just for example a Mono-Si panel of 400Wp may cost £200, but a similarly sized Silicon/Perovskite tandem panel may be 600Wp for £300. [Prices made up, purely for ease of maths.]

[Stinsy]

Mart,
Yes they are CIGS thin film panels by Solar Frontier (gone bust). They maximised FITS because they had a + and - production tolrance unlike most panels having only a minus tolerance so thats what you get.

The efficiency gains are greater than i thought.

Where do you see those prices as at those i might expand my present system.

If you want panels at decent prices, look at: Bimble, ITS, and Trade Sparky.

[Joeboy]

Mart,
Yes they are CIGS thin film panels by Solar Frontier (gone bust). They maximised FITS because they had a + and - production tolrance unlike most panels having only a minus tolerance so thats what you get.

The efficiency gains are greater than i thought.

Where do you see those prices as at those i might expand my present system.

If you want panels at decent prices, look at: Bimble, ITS, and Trade Sparky.

Absolutely to all three as ive bought from them all. Bimble was my favourite though, excellent customer service.

[Ken]

thanks

[Andy]

I've been surprised at what poor value the second hand panels are on eBay. Often more expensive than new ones.