camelot-forum.co.uk

Plug & play solar module from the Netherlands,

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/08/13/ ... om-france/

Supersola has developed a 315 W, half-cut monocrystalline PV module. It costs €699 and can be coupled with other two panels to form a 1 kW residential PV system.
"The device has an output of 315 W and is equipped with a micro-inverter. It measures 170 cm x 108 cm x 12.5 cm and weighs 42.5 kg. The total weight of the module, which includes four 13-liter ballast tanks that can be filled with water, can be raised to up to 94.5 kg if it is used outdoors.

The panel's nominal output current is 1.3 A and the nominal voltage is 230 V. It also comes with a 5-meter cable that can be connected to a socket. Up to three panels can be plugged together through special connecting cables provided by the company"

I recollect that this wouldn't be legal in the uk? (plugged straight into mains "technically" however I cannot see a European designed system not dealing with this in the submissions stage, thus what is their workaround?

Mr Gus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:33 am Plug & play solar module from the Netherlands,

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/08/13/ ... om-france/

Supersola has developed a 315 W, half-cut monocrystalline PV module. It costs €699 and can be coupled with other two panels to form a 1 kW residential PV system.
"The device has an output of 315 W and is equipped with a micro-inverter. It measures 170 cm x 108 cm x 12.5 cm and weighs 42.5 kg. The total weight of the module, which includes four 13-liter ballast tanks that can be filled with water, can be raised to up to 94.5 kg if it is used outdoors.

The panel's nominal output current is 1.3 A and the nominal voltage is 230 V. It also comes with a 5-meter cable that can be connected to a socket. Up to three panels can be plugged together through special connecting cables provided by the company"

I recollect that this wouldn't be legal in the uk? (plugged straight into mains "technically" however I cannot see a European designed system not dealing with this in the submissions stage, thus what is their workaround?

The workaround is that its always been legal to add a small amount of plug in PV in some European countries. The main issue is overloading a circuit and the circuit MCB does not trip, because the MCB only sees part of the current. However the risk of a fire from an overload of a few hundred watts over a 32A circuit rated MCB is arguably negligible.

Or you could simply change a 32A ringmain MCB to a 25A MCB and up to say 1kW plug in solar would not cause an overload of the wiring or the socket. Still not legal in the UK though and doing that might cause some nuisance tripping.

There is also the issue of the plug being live when you pull it out, but it probably cuts out extremely fast on removal, as not to give someone a lethal shock.

"The Regs" are (unnecessarily) complex and disorganised, context is important, and they also contradict themselves so judgement should always be applied.

For example: 551.7.2(ii) states: “The Microgenerator (solar panels) must not be connected to the final circuit by means of a Plug and Socket”

However 551.7.2 is in fact a set of ADDITIONAL requirements in the case that a "generating set" (eg solar inverter) is connected to an "existing" not "dedicated" circuit.

These additional requirements are:

(i) the current carrying capacity of the final circuit conductors shall be greater than or equal to the rated current of the protective device plus the rated output of the generating set, and
(ii) A generating set shall not be connected to a final circuit by a plug and socket, and
(iii) A residual current device providing additional protection of the final circuit in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall disconnect all live conductors including the neutral conductor, and
(iv) The line and neutral conductors of the final circuit and of the generating
set shall not be connected to earth, and
(v) Unless the device providing automatic disconnection of the final circuit in accordance with Regulation 411.3.2 disconnects the line and neutral conductors, it shall be verified that the combination of the disconnection time of the protective device for the final circuit and the time taken for the output voltage of the generating set to reduce to 50 V or less is not greater than the disconnection time required by Regulation 411.3.2 for a final circuit.

Basically you are fine to use a normal plug/socket to connect your solar if it is a dedicated circuit, but otherwise you cannot.

The most interesting to me is point (i). You have to upsize the cabling or downsize the breaker so that the cabling is rated for the breaker capacity PLUS the solar.

Another interesting point is that battery devices count as "generating sets" and therefore shouldn't be connected to existing circuits via plug and socket (along with the other requirements). But I've seen many such devices (eg PowerVault).

We've discussed these cowboys before in another place:

https://www.pluginsolar.co.uk/?product= ... und-mounts

Interesting, my sister lives in France and we've talked about getting some PV on her house. Looks like it's intended for ground mount only as there's no mention of fixing on rails (she's not going to want to give up any of her garden to it!). I also wonder whether ERDF have made things any easier for would-be micro generators recently...

Stig wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:53 pm Interesting, my sister lives in France and we've talked about getting some PV on her house. Looks like it's intended for ground mount only as there's no mention of fixing on rails (she's not going to want to give up any of her garden to it!). I also wonder whether ERDF have made things any easier for would-be micro generators recently...

I thought PV in France had to be integrated into the roof, i.e. not on rails, because of their complicated regulations.

nowty wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:50 pm I thought PV in France had to be integrated into the roof, i.e. not on rails, because of their complicated regulations.

Complicated regulations is indeed the issue You can have solar thermal mounted on top of the tiles (as my sister has) and I'm sure I've seen PV both integrated and bolt-on, of course there may be local rules.

For those of us who did not see the discussion on PluginSolar in the other place would it be possible for you to summarize as I was seriously considering buying a DIY flat roof package from them based on Enphase and Console+ tubs.

This thread tells you all you need to know!

In summary:

• The products sold by "Plug-In Solar" do not plug in.

• The products sold by "Plug-In Solar" are not compliant with "the regs".

• Solar "generators" should really be connected to a dedicated circuit.

• The reality is that adding a 200W solar "generator" to an existing ring final circuit won't harm anything. However 2000W is a whole other ballgame and should never be connected to an existing final circuit. Something in-between? Do your smoke alarms have fresh batteries? How far is it to the fire station?

• I believe Plug In Solar contributed to this forum at one point. They did not come off well. They have probably deleted their posts for fear they'd rank in a Google search.

EDIT: I found the thread: https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... 5&start=60

Brilliant. Great Thread. Totally understand the point that you could have a 32 amp ring main, stick 10 amps of Solar half way round and now a device with a fault could draw 42 amps before tripping the RCBO which could be more than the cable can support and cause a fire. You could downgrade the breaker by how much the solar could produce but that is notifiable, so no longer plug in. If you are going to get an electrician in to do that you may as well get a dedicated circuit.

Weirdly I just happen to have a dedicated circuit to the garage for a table saw I do not use anymore with a B20 MCB. I wonder does anyone know if that will suffice or do I need to get someone in to swap it for a C20?

sw25481 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:03 pm Brilliant. Great Thread. Totally understand the point that you could have a 32 amp ring main, stick 10 amps of Solar half way round and now a device with a fault could draw 42 amps before tripping the RCBO which could be more than the cable can support and cause a fire. You could downgrade the breaker by how much the solar could produce but that is notifiable, so no longer plug in. If you are going to get an electrician in to do that you may as well get a dedicated circuit.

Weirdly I just happen to have a dedicated circuit to the garage for a table saw I do not use anymore with a B20 MCB. I wonder does anyone know if that will suffice or do I need to get someone in to swap it for a C20?

B curve breakers are fine for solar and a B20 will be perfect for a G98 installation.