GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

AE-NMidlands
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:10 pm

GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#1

Post by AE-NMidlands »

Hello all
I have started this thread because it seems that a few of us have this kit, and I hope it might help prevent observations, queries (and - with a bit of luck - worthwhile tips) getting scattered across other threads.

Mostly (in the first week after installation in January, no DNO export approval yet) it did exactly what I would have expected, except that I was surprised to see the west-facing array generating a few 10s of Watts and more in the morning when the sun was still behind the ridge!

My first hitch was trying to participate in the recent Octopus Saving Session. I set the inverter to "Timed Discharge: This mode will discharge your batteries to your home during a period you define" - only to see it exporting to the grid flat out!
I stopped it and tried again, but it still started to empty my battery into the grid even though I have no export tariff yet. No joy sorting this so far. After the weekend I shall ask either Octopus (who fitted it) or Givenergy themselves (who answered a query as soon as my system went live) why this was. I think they can both see all the details of your successive instructions to your inverter. I am wondering whether "they" (the algorithm) assumed I already have an export tariff and assumed it was worth exporting anything available?
A
2.0 kW/4.62 MWhr pa in Ripples, 4.5 kWp W-facing pv, 9.5 kWhr batt
30 solar thermal tubes, 2MWhr pa in Stockport, plus Congleton and Kinlochbervie Hydros,
Most travel by bike, walking or bus/train. Veg, fruit - and Bees!
Adokforme
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:09 pm

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#2

Post by Adokforme »

Hi AE, I have a pair of Giv AC Inverters but haven't yet been accepted onto Outgoing since application prior to christmas so I'm going to find this thread interesting for sure, so thanks for setting it up.
I haven't had cause to use either Discharge or Export as yet but just checking on the wording we have on our install then for Timed discharge it says "This mode will discharge your batteries to your home during a period you define" so like you would assume this to cover house load only!
For Timed Export -"This mode will hold your battery power and discharge it at full power during a period you define".
I do have ECO mode Enabled in order to cover any load the house requires and also to charge batteries when excess PV is available. In conjunction with ECO mode we have Timed Charge set from 23.30 to 05.30 which I assume is what most will have when on IOG tariff?
Yuff
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:18 pm
Location: East Midlands

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#3

Post by Yuff »

Hi AE

Have you got the app set up yet with the quick set buttons?
There are 4 buttons you can use, fully discharge, fully charge, discharge battery to home and pause.
These are the ones you need.
The inverter settings will dictate the charging rates but when you set the app up and the quick set buttons, you will get an info box explaining each button.

Edit
I have OO and IOG. It works pretty well. Been exporting since mid November. Hoping to turbocharge this week with an upgraded inverter ( long story but supplier provided a gen 1 inverter instead of a gen 2) and an extra AIO battery with a 6kw inverter, so I’ll go from 2.6 kWh export capability to 9.6 if all goes to plan :)


Image
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ASHP 8.5kW x 2
12 x 460w Solar panels
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EVs x 3 170 kWh Batteries
Ripple 5.8 kW PV
AE-NMidlands
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:10 pm

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#4

Post by AE-NMidlands »

Yes, it seems that Go gives you a longer cheap slot - on top of the much cheaper rate!

I can't justify an EV, so I shall be stuck with Flux's 2 am to 5am cheap import slot for the months that I need it (but even that's not avaailable until the DNO approve my export application!)

One good thing is that I was told that Octopus allow you to change tariffs without a penalty, subject to 31 day minimum, and expect you (me) to swap between Intelligent Octopus (with its significantly higher evening peak export rate) when I have a surplus from late spring to autumn and back to Flux with a cheap import slot for the winter again.
Learning time!
A
2.0 kW/4.62 MWhr pa in Ripples, 4.5 kWp W-facing pv, 9.5 kWhr batt
30 solar thermal tubes, 2MWhr pa in Stockport, plus Congleton and Kinlochbervie Hydros,
Most travel by bike, walking or bus/train. Veg, fruit - and Bees!
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Krill
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:38 pm

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#5

Post by Krill »

AE-NMidlands wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:42 am Yes, it seems that Go gives you a longer cheap slot - on top of the much cheaper rate!

I can't justify an EV, so I shall be stuck with Flux's 2 am to 5am cheap import slot for the months that I need it (but even that's not avaailable until the DNO approve my export application!)

One good thing is that I was told that Octopus allow you to change tariffs without a penalty, subject to 31 day minimum, and expect you (me) to swap between Intelligent Octopus (with its significantly higher evening peak export rate) when I have a surplus from late spring to autumn and back to Flux with a cheap import slot for the winter again.
Learning time!
A
Italics mine.

Technical clarification because this is wrong in specifics but right in reality: The Flux export rate during the day is 17.12p/kWh and the higher rate is 28.37p/kWh, so the actual export rate itself is higher on Flux. The cheap rate import is 16.87p/kWh though, so it's not significantly better to charge in the cheap rate, but does provide surety of supply.

IoG is "better" because the import rate (7.5p/kWh during cheap slots) is significantly better than the export rate (15p/kWh fixed at all times), so it always makes more sense to charge on the cheap rate and then export everything as it is generated (in an AC coupled system, DC coupled requires constant forced discharge so batteries don't get full and shut down the DC generation as nowty evidences). On a per day basis IoG is a better tariff for generating income, no questions asked.

Edit: This is for winter, it's not obvious what happens in the summer as total production versus total use, inverting capacity, system design can all change the situation drastically. For example, a high production, low use solar site might actually benefit more from the higher export values on flux, especially if it has an efficient DC coupled system with high inverting capacity (so the DC coupled panels produce all day then it's flushed out during the higher rate export window.
Last edited by Krill on Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Solar PV:6.4kW solar PV (Eurener MEPV 400W*16)
PV Inverter: Solis 6kW inverter
Batteries: 14.4kWh LiFePO4 batteries (Pylontech US5000*3)
Battery Inverter: LuxPowertek 3600 ACS*2 battery inverter
WBS: 8kW Hunter Avalon 6 Multifuel burner (wood only)
AE-NMidlands
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:10 pm

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#6

Post by AE-NMidlands »

Krill wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:25 am
AE-NMidlands wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:42 am Yes, it seems that Go gives you a longer cheap slot - on top of the much cheaper rate!

I can't justify an EV, so I shall be stuck with Flux's 2 am to 5am cheap import slot for the months that I need it (but even that's not avaailable until the DNO approve my export application!)

One good thing is that I was told that Octopus allow you to change tariffs without a penalty, subject to 31 day minimum, and expect you (me) to swap between Intelligent Octopus (with its significantly higher evening peak export rate) when I have a surplus from late spring to autumn and back to Flux with a cheap import slot for the winter again.
Learning time!
A
Italics mine.

Technical clarification because this is wrong in specifics but right in reality: The Flux export rate during the day is 17.12p/kWh and the higher rate is 28.37p/kWh, so the actual export rate itself is higher on Flux. The cheap rate import is 16.87p/kWh though, so it's not significantly better to charge in the cheap rate, but does provide surety of supply.

IoG is "better" because the import rate (7.5p/kWh during cheap slots) is significantly better than the export rate (15p/kWh fixed at all times), so it always makes more sense to charge on the cheap rate and then export everything as it is generated (in an AC coupled system, DC coupled requires constant forced discharge so batteries don't get full and shut down the DC generation as nowty evidences). On a per day basis IoG is a better tariff for generating income, no questions asked.
Sorry, but I think not. If you haven't got an EV you can't have these Go tariffs, but "simple" Flux has an evening peak export rate of 35.48p aunit
rates.png
rates.png (29.63 KiB) Viewed 482 times
Yuff wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:01 am Hi AE

Have you got the app set up yet with the quick set buttons?
There are 4 buttons you can use, fully discharge, fully charge, discharge battery to home and pause.
These are the ones you need.
The inverter settings will dictate the charging rates but when you set the app up and the quick set buttons, you will get an info box explaining each button.

Edit
I have OO and IOG. It works pretty well. Been exporting since mid November. Hoping to turbocharge this week with an upgraded inverter ( long story but supplier provided a gen 1 inverter instead of a gen 2) and an extra AIO battery with a 6kw inverter, so I’ll go from 2.6 kWh export capability to 9.6 if all goes to plan :)


Image
Thanks for that, maybe where I went wrong. I had assumed the app was a lite version of the dashboard etc which I prefer to access on my laptop. I did notice stuff about the app in the user manual but hadn't realised it was more important or powerful than the controls in "My Inverter" page. Maybe I'll borrow SWMBO's tablet for that, she will like to see the info from the home screen too, if she wants to look!
2.0 kW/4.62 MWhr pa in Ripples, 4.5 kWp W-facing pv, 9.5 kWhr batt
30 solar thermal tubes, 2MWhr pa in Stockport, plus Congleton and Kinlochbervie Hydros,
Most travel by bike, walking or bus/train. Veg, fruit - and Bees!
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Krill
Posts: 247
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Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#7

Post by Krill »

AE-NMidlands wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:34 am
Krill wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:25 am
AE-NMidlands wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:42 am Yes, it seems that Go gives you a longer cheap slot - on top of the much cheaper rate!

I can't justify an EV, so I shall be stuck with Flux's 2 am to 5am cheap import slot for the months that I need it (but even that's not avaailable until the DNO approve my export application!)

One good thing is that I was told that Octopus allow you to change tariffs without a penalty, subject to 31 day minimum, and expect you (me) to swap between Intelligent Octopus (with its significantly higher evening peak export rate) when I have a surplus from late spring to autumn and back to Flux with a cheap import slot for the winter again.
Learning time!
A
Italics mine.

Technical clarification because this is wrong in specifics but right in reality: The Flux export rate during the day is 17.12p/kWh and the higher rate is 28.37p/kWh, so the actual export rate itself is higher on Flux. The cheap rate import is 16.87p/kWh though, so it's not significantly better to charge in the cheap rate, but does provide surety of supply.

IoG is "better" because the import rate (7.5p/kWh during cheap slots) is significantly better than the export rate (15p/kWh fixed at all times), so it always makes more sense to charge on the cheap rate and then export everything as it is generated (in an AC coupled system, DC coupled requires constant forced discharge so batteries don't get full and shut down the DC generation as nowty evidences). On a per day basis IoG is a better tariff for generating income, no questions asked.
Sorry, but I think not. If you haven't got an EV you can't have these Go tariffs, but "simple" Flux has an evening peak export rate of 35.48p aunit

rates.png
Yuff wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:01 am Hi AE

Have you got the app set up yet with the quick set buttons?
There are 4 buttons you can use, fully discharge, fully charge, discharge battery to home and pause.
These are the ones you need.
The inverter settings will dictate the charging rates but when you set the app up and the quick set buttons, you will get an info box explaining each button.

Edit
I have OO and IOG. It works pretty well. Been exporting since mid November. Hoping to turbocharge this week with an upgraded inverter ( long story but supplier provided a gen 1 inverter instead of a gen 2) and an extra AIO battery with a 6kw inverter, so I’ll go from 2.6 kWh export capability to 9.6 if all goes to plan :)


Image
Thanks for that, maybe where I went wrong. I had assumed the app was a lite version of the dashboard etc which I prefer to access on my laptop. I did notice stuff about the app in the user manual but hadn't realised it was more important or powerful than the controls in "My Inverter" page. Maybe I'll borrow SWMBO's tablet for that, she will like to see the info from the home screen too, if she wants to look!
Those are the rates for Intelligent Octopus Flux: https://octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus-flux/. The difference between basic rate and higher export rate is 8.4p/kWh

The basic, non-intelligent Flux tariff can be found here: https://octopus.energy/smart/flux/ . The difference is 11.5p/kWh but if you are importing a lot and exporting little in winter then importing at 7.5p/kWh is far better than importing at either 16.8p/kWh or 26.6p/kWh.

Edit: I see the issue: You wrote Intelligent Octopus but didn't clarify between IO Go or IO Flux. I assumed GO, but you meant Flux. Yes IOF has the highest export rates. IOF is not actually a good tariff in a few instance though, but I agree that in summer it could be a good tariff in some circumstances. I'd like to hear your views of it over this next summer :)
Last edited by Krill on Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Solar PV:6.4kW solar PV (Eurener MEPV 400W*16)
PV Inverter: Solis 6kW inverter
Batteries: 14.4kWh LiFePO4 batteries (Pylontech US5000*3)
Battery Inverter: LuxPowertek 3600 ACS*2 battery inverter
WBS: 8kW Hunter Avalon 6 Multifuel burner (wood only)
AE-NMidlands
Posts: 1714
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:10 pm

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#8

Post by AE-NMidlands »

Krill wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:45 am Those are the rates for Intelligent Octopus Flux: https://octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus-flux/. The difference between basic rate and higher export rate is 8.4p/kWh

The basic, non-intelligent Flux tariff can be found here: https://octopus.energy/smart/flux/ . The difference is 11.5p/kWh but if you are importing a lot and exporting little in winter then importing at 7.5p/kWh is far better than importing at either 16.8p/kWh or 26.6p/kWh.
But I still can't import at 7.5p - that must be a go tariff. Here is what I got for my postcode from your link:
Screenshot 2024-02-04 at 11-54-56 Octopus Flux.png
Screenshot 2024-02-04 at 11-54-56 Octopus Flux.png (37.43 KiB) Viewed 464 times
Or maybe power is just disproportionally more expensive in the ex-MANWEB area.
2.0 kW/4.62 MWhr pa in Ripples, 4.5 kWp W-facing pv, 9.5 kWhr batt
30 solar thermal tubes, 2MWhr pa in Stockport, plus Congleton and Kinlochbervie Hydros,
Most travel by bike, walking or bus/train. Veg, fruit - and Bees!
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Krill
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Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#9

Post by Krill »

AE, I think I'm talking past you, so sorry about that. I've added another edit to my previous post.

Yeah, I agree with you that power seems to be significantly more valuable a resource in the ex-MANWEB area (I don't claim to know why), things are drastically cheaper in Staffordshire.

Yes, Intelligent Octopus Go is import at 7.5p during cheapslot hours which can be manipulated by controlling the charge rate. I don't know how, I don't have an EV, but nowty has shown clearly how abusable that system is.

I think that without an EV, either IO Flux or basic Flux are perhaps the better choices even in winter. I looked for cheap overnight tariffs but couldn't find any in my neck of the woods. In summer, gimme those high export tariffs; I've covered my gas use and all standing charges with summer production and export.

I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll shut up now. I suppose my one request: when we talk about Intelligent Octopus, can we discern between IO Go and IO Flux please?
Solar PV:6.4kW solar PV (Eurener MEPV 400W*16)
PV Inverter: Solis 6kW inverter
Batteries: 14.4kWh LiFePO4 batteries (Pylontech US5000*3)
Battery Inverter: LuxPowertek 3600 ACS*2 battery inverter
WBS: 8kW Hunter Avalon 6 Multifuel burner (wood only)
John_S
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:03 am
Location: West London

Re: GivEnergy equipment and experiences?

#10

Post by John_S »

AE-NMidlands wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:34 am
Yuff wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:01 am Hi AE

Have you got the app set up yet with the quick set buttons?
There are 4 buttons you can use, fully discharge, fully charge, discharge battery to home and pause.
These are the ones you need.
The inverter settings will dictate the charging rates but when you set the app up and the quick set buttons, you will get an info box explaining each button.
Thanks for that, maybe where I went wrong. I had assumed the app was a lite version of the dashboard etc which I prefer to access on my laptop. I did notice stuff about the app in the user manual but hadn't realised it was more important or powerful than the controls in "My Inverter" page. Maybe I'll borrow SWMBO's tablet for that, she will like to see the info from the home screen too, if she wants to look!
Hi

Have you got GevEnergy doing what you want it to do now?

I have received a quote for 2*5.2kWh GivEnergy batteries and a 3kW GivEnergy battery charger/inverter plus all the bits. I don't want hybrid. Is it good kit and is £5350 installed a reasonable price?

John
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