Fastest charge inverters

NoraBatty
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#31

Post by NoraBatty »

NoraBatty wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:24 am Out of interest, does anyone know why the victron multiplus II 48/5000 is rated as g98and g99 compliant?!

It clearly is capable of exporting more than 3.68kw.
Is this purely because commissioning is able to lock export at 3.68kw, so that homeowners cannot fiddle and get more?
From bimble.
The Multiplus II 48/5000 will require an additional Victron Energy Meter ET112 to operate as ESS storage solution. With the addition of the meter it will G99 compliant and capable of export limitation under G100

Midsummer have just stated that g100 compliance is coming soon with victron stuff.

I question the use of the term compliant when used in this fashion.
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AGT
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#32

Post by AGT »

I would rather confirm with the manufacturer rather than a supplier on any compliant issue.
Victron have been around for ages so would assume not in the game for making false problems
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Fintray
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#33

Post by Fintray »

NoraBatty wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:42 pm Right.
I think, i have arrived at a solution, but would like some confirmation on if my thinking is correct.
I would like to keep the whole ecosystem the same.

We have used victron 12v solar controllers for many years (decades) on our boat and it has served us very well. Bomb proof, though we have no other experience of use. victron kit is most likely to be the choice, given the expandability, and complete ecosystem solution. I know i could do it cheaper, but, it is what it is.

Victron do a multiplus II, 48/3000 that obviously meets g98, and is sized well for the 2.7kw roof pv.
This is a 2.4kw output apparently. (So call it 2.4🙄)

2.4kw is not enough for my domestic loads in winter, half of the time.
So if i parallel 2, i can put in a g99 sgi-1, as has been suggested above.

I presume, i can then limit export to the 3.68kw needed, via the controllers, but, still gain access to the 4.8kw output for the domestic load.

Is this thinking correct, or have i missed something, like needing G100 and a CT clamp?

Krill mentioned turning a 2nd inverter on and off as needed for domestic load, and only using it as a charger in normal use. .
I can certainly do that, but depending how easy that is to do, would prefer to not have to worry about it, and have it automatically kick to supplying domestic load when needed. It then gices the possibility of doing this with a 3rd inverter and taking advantage of a maximum of 7.2kw for domestic load, should our need ever change to be this high.

I cannot for the life of me see why the victron system would not do all of that automatically, but of course, that doesnt mean it will.

Am i on the right lines?

It then gives the option, of getting a full g99 application in, down the line for the same kit, and opening it up to its max export potential.
Nora do you mean 2.4kW for your domestic loads purely from the batteries as that inverter can pass through 32A plus the 2.4kW from the batteries if required.

According to Victron "Grid Meter (optional)
An Energy Meter can be installed in the main distribution panel between the grid and the installation for a full or partial
grid-parallel installation.
A grid meter is not required where there is no AC renewable-energy source(s) and also no AC load(s) present on the input side
of the Multi/Quattro system (i.e. where all such sources and loads are on the output side of the Multi/Quattro system)."
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NoraBatty
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#34

Post by NoraBatty »

If i have the ASHP on, and the oven. And it draws 4kw, i want the 4kw to come from the batteries.
I dont want to have to rely on the passthrough from the grid, to make up the 1.6kw shortfall, if its a 2.4kw inverter.

I already load shift as much as possible. ASHP, has to run, and we have to eat, or do washing.
I dont mind pass through from the grid at cheaper times, and the homely controller for the ASHP does a good job of negating more expensive agile run times, but i want to maximise battery useage to limit cost in winter, especially on very expensive days.

Either way, a 2.4kw inverter on its own, just wont handle taking my loads from the batteries half the time in winter.
4.8 would, as would 3.68.

Summer isnt so much of an issue with solar gain and only using 2kwh a day.

I already have a meter for the solis, grid tied export.
I was assuming, parallel wiring would mean terminating the inverter wiring at seperate line and neutral bus bar/terminals. Equal length, switched wires then go to 2 inverters, which are linked together with comms cable.
Output goes to busbars again, and so on.

I would need a victron energy meter in the CU aswell or instead of? Presumably so that the victron can see what load is required and monitor export limit?!
Is that what you mean

Maybe this is too ambitious. I just need a basic system up and running once the enclosures arrive and they are built.
Probably best to just scrap the victron multiverse idea and get something like a sunsynk 3.68kw hybrid. Not as many issues.
I can then add the solar via dc, as and when.

If i can finally get an installer, i can then try and get full g99, and either get it replaced with a big inverter or get the installer to parallel another properly instead of trying to explain what i see in my head!
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
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Fintray
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#35

Post by Fintray »

Why not just get a larger Multiplus like the 48/5000 as that will output 4000W from the batteries when required.

In the context of the quote from Victron re parallel, I take it to mean running in parallel with the grid although you are right that in if you are connecting up more than one Multiplus the cabling needs to be the same diameter, length etc.

If like me you are intending putting all your loads and AC PV system on the output side of the Multiplus then you don't need an additional energy meter.

See the Victron ESS design and installation manual for more details.
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#36

Post by NoraBatty »

A 48/5000 would be ideal, and what i first wanted.
But the g98 wont cover it, nor would a g99 fast track, and i am struggling to find an installer.
I do have the confidence to do it myself, and would make sure the cabling is up to code, but to submit a g99 and or fit a limiter and a g100, it looks like you have to be a qualified spark to submit one.

If i am coming up against issues finding an installer, finding one to sign off someone elses work would be much harder i imagine.

And if i am getting an installer in to do a g99 and fit something, not doing it myself, then i may as well go for an even bigger inverter if the DNO allow, which enables faster charging and discharging times.
If that looks like 2 x5kws, or 1x 8kw, i dont know, 2x5s would be more practical for when i dont want to dump the batteries as fast as possible, compared to an 8kw.

An installer to do it for me would not only be easier, but much quicker, physically doing it.
Then there is my schedule. I would prefer not to overload myself. I already have the batteries to make, house to replumb and insulate, a shed to rip out and make, extra solar to install, and a garden to finish overhauling
Its alot of work on top of a full time job. Even if i do work from home.

I had a call with a friend back in portsmouth an hour ago. She is getting her solar spark brother to call me on thursday, suggesting he could possibly do it if he can get time off, and bring the kids up here for a holiday, either in summer hols or october half term. He has been talking about taking the kids to the lake district, and scotland is so much better😇
Madness, but if we can do that it would be best.
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12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
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43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
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Fintray
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#37

Post by Fintray »

Ah, I see your problem now.

Let's hope your friends brother can get up and solve your inverter issues. :xx:
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NoraBatty
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#38

Post by NoraBatty »

AGT wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:48 pm I would rather confirm with the manufacturer rather than a supplier on any compliant issue.
Victron have been around for ages so would assume not in the game for making false problems
Thanks, I was pretty satisfied with bimbles answer, but you are 100% correct.
It doesn't matter in this regard so much.
No idea why they choose such marketing terminology.
Essentially what they mean is the unit meets all pre conditions needed for G98, G99 and in future G100.
it would therefore be better to take a leaf from appliances marketing, ad say it is G98, G99 and G100 ''ready''.
But I am a pedant.
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12kw midea ASHP
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AlBargey
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#39

Post by AlBargey »

NoraBatty wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:58 pm A 48/5000 would be ideal, and what i first wanted.
But the g98 wont cover it, nor would a g99 fast track, and i am struggling to find an installer.
The Multi 48/5000II is certified and on the ENA database for G98 /G99. When set up under G98 it will limit power to 3.68kW. So I think you're over worrying, it'll work and conform, the whole point of G98 etc certification is that inverters will limit and disconnect to the standard, it doesn't matter that the same inverter when NOT set to G98 can exceed the standard.

Look at the many threads on the Victron forum or ask on there if you haven't already to confirm.
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NoraBatty
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Re: Fastest charge inverters

#40

Post by NoraBatty »

AlBargey wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:47 pm
NoraBatty wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:58 pm A 48/5000 would be ideal, and what i first wanted.
But the g98 wont cover it, nor would a g99 fast track, and i am struggling to find an installer.
The Multi 48/5000II is certified and on the ENA database for G98 /G99. When set up under G98 it will limit power to 3.68kW. So I think you're over worrying, it'll work and conform, the whole point of G98 etc certification is that inverters will limit and disconnect to the standard, it doesn't matter that the same inverter when NOT set to G98 can exceed the standard.

Look at the many threads on the Victron forum or ask on there if you haven't already to confirm.
Thanks for the info AlBargey.
So under G98 for this inverter, internal limiter is fine, and g100 not needed?
Can a homeowner set the 3.68w limit themselves, or, do homeowners have to be locked out for dno to be happy.

If I can straight swap the grid tied, to the Multi 48/5000II, without doing anything dno related, it would be a great, and yes, over worrying
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
3152W RE, Whitelaw Brae
Octopus agile/outgoing fixed 15p

Planned;
Hybrid system
43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
6-8+kw solar, DC connected.
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