Fastest charge inverters

NoraBatty
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:40 am

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#21

Post by NoraBatty »

nowty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 6:19 pm And also can NoraBatty confirm what the 45kWh of batteries are currently connected to ?

Is the current 3kW Solis a hybrid or a simple grid tie ?

Edit - I've looked back over a number of posts, and I think I understand the current issue, please confirm I have this right.

NoraBatty has a simple pukka G98 installed two roof string 3kW Solis grid tie, is on Agile import and fixed 15p export. Also has 48 DIY batteries (4 strings of 16 ?) from china with BMS but is sitting there doing nothing. Has ambitions for more solar and a way of connecting the DIY battery and other installers are not interested and wants to know what am I going to do now ?
Batteries. Yes 48 of. They are connected to absolutely nothing.
They shipped over from china by Colin and are sat in their boxes.
I am awaiting 3 enclosures to be delivered, so making 3x16 strings as soin as delivery occurs.

Agile import
Fixed 15p export currently.

No EV, no plans for at least 10 years to get one either.
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
3152W RE, Whitelaw Brae
Octopus agile/outgoing fixed 15p

Planned;
Hybrid system
43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
6-8+kw solar, DC connected.
NoraBatty
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:40 am

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#22

Post by NoraBatty »

Sorry Joe,
I thought i was Replying to Nowty a post or two ago.
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
3152W RE, Whitelaw Brae
Octopus agile/outgoing fixed 15p

Planned;
Hybrid system
43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
6-8+kw solar, DC connected.
AGT
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:26 am

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#23

Post by AGT »

Is the Hoymiles inverters the ones that need registering outwith the Uk?
Last edited by AGT on Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
nowty
Posts: 5333
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 2:36 pm
Location: South Coast

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#24

Post by nowty »

NoraBatty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:02 pm
nowty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 6:19 pm And also can NoraBatty confirm what the 45kWh of batteries are currently connected to ?

Is the current 3kW Solis a hybrid or a simple grid tie ?

Edit - I've looked back over a number of posts, and I think I understand the current issue, please confirm I have this right.

NoraBatty has a simple pukka G98 installed two roof string 3kW Solis grid tie, is on Agile import and fixed 15p export. Also has 48 DIY batteries (4 strings of 16 ?) from china with BMS but is sitting there doing nothing. Has ambitions for more solar and a way of connecting the DIY battery and other installers are not interested and wants to know what am I going to do now ?
Batteries. Yes 48 of. They are connected to absolutely nothing.
They shipped over from china by Colin and are sat in their boxes.
I am awaiting 3 enclosures to be delivered, so making 3x16 strings as soin as delivery occurs.

Agile import
Fixed 15p export currently.

No EV, no plans for at least 10 years to get one either.
OK I did mean 3 x 16 batteries of course. :facepalm:

Your options are,

Option 1
Just swap the Solis with a 3.68kW hybrid inverter (any brand) and connect the batteries to them. I would not even bother contacting the DNO for this option as you already have the G98 approval and it would still be compliant. You could still add more panels down the DC charge controller route and no need to contact the DNO.

Option 2
Keep the current 3kW Solis as is.
Buy a second hybrid or battery inverter to connect the batteries to. If the second inverter is 3.68kW, then it’s a simple post install G99 fast track application, not much different from a G98 application. You can then add panels with DC charge controllers and supplementary grid battery chargers if you want faster charging to take advantage of agile price dips. No need to bother DNO with stuff on the DC side.

Option 3
Apply for G99 larger hybrid inverter, it’s a pre-install application and install whatever they allow you. In this case you could either swap out the existing inverter or add a second hybrid or battery inverter.
Last edited by nowty on Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
16.9kW PV > 104MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 21MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 500 m3
NoraBatty
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:40 am

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#25

Post by NoraBatty »

Yes. Thank you Nowty.
Apart from your handy idea of adding battery chargers,
That is what i was trying to say, in my probably incoherent waffle earlier.

Given i want to charge the batteries as quick as possible on cheap rate, i was thinking i needed a chunky high Amp draw inverter to do so.
Your idea with the battery charger, very gratefully received, and basically negates the idea of needing such a large amp, more expensive inverter.

There is normally only 1or 2 cheap slots per day (at best) on agile.
With export price fixed, i have no need to dump the whole lot as quickly as possible, so yes, only charging the batteries fast is the
Issue.

As i said, the house load this past winter was rarely over 3.6kwh at any one time.
I have a 100-200W background load, not including the heatpump.
I would, ideally like a larger inverter to be able to draw everything from the batteries, instead of make up the shortfall from the grid, and negate the need to load shift, but this maybe happened once a week, for half an hour last winter, and not having an installer yet, hinders ability to go bigger anyway.

Looks like you guys are adding to my workload as you want extra pictures :lol:
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
3152W RE, Whitelaw Brae
Octopus agile/outgoing fixed 15p

Planned;
Hybrid system
43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
6-8+kw solar, DC connected.
User avatar
Joeboy
Posts: 7390
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 4:22 pm
Location: Inverurie

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#26

Post by Joeboy »

AGT wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:10 pm Is the Hoymiles inverters the ones that need registering outwith the Uk?
I would think so but haven't looked into it. Saw it recently.on online PV magazine I think. I'm sure there will be others available?

I like option 1 for it's fast implementation with no dno hassle and the ability to roll on into the DC side for faster grid or PV via charge controller charging later.
18.2kW PV SE, VI, HM, EN & DW
Ripple 7kW WT & Gen to date 15MWh
42kWh LFPO4 storage
95kWh Heater storage
12kWh 210ltr HWT.
73kWh HI5
Deep insulation, air leak ct'd home
Zoned GCH & Hive 2
WBSx2
Low energy bulbs
Veg patches & fruit trees
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Krill
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:38 pm

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#27

Post by Krill »

nowty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:14 pm
NoraBatty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:02 pm
nowty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 6:19 pm And also can NoraBatty confirm what the 45kWh of batteries are currently connected to ?

Is the current 3kW Solis a hybrid or a simple grid tie ?

Edit - I've looked back over a number of posts, and I think I understand the current issue, please confirm I have this right.

NoraBatty has a simple pukka G98 installed two roof string 3kW Solis grid tie, is on Agile import and fixed 15p export. Also has 48 DIY batteries (4 strings of 16 ?) from china with BMS but is sitting there doing nothing. Has ambitions for more solar and a way of connecting the DIY battery and other installers are not interested and wants to know what am I going to do now ?
Batteries. Yes 48 of. They are connected to absolutely nothing.
They shipped over from china by Colin and are sat in their boxes.
I am awaiting 3 enclosures to be delivered, so making 3x16 strings as soin as delivery occurs.

Agile import
Fixed 15p export currently.

No EV, no plans for at least 10 years to get one either.
OK I did mean 3 x 16 batteries of course. :facepalm:

Your options are,

Option 1
Just swap the Solis with a 3.68kW hybrid inverter (any brand) and connect the batteries to them. I would not even bother contacting the DNO for this option as you already have the G98 approval and it would still be compliant. You could still add more panels down the DC charge controller route and no need to contact the DNO.

Option 2
Keep the current 3kW Solis as is.
Buy a second hybrid or battery inverter to connect the batteries to. If the second inverter is 3.68kW, then it’s a simple post install G99 fast track application, not much different from a G98 application. You can then add panels with DC charge controllers and supplementary grid battery chargers if you want faster charging to take advantage of agile price dips. No need to bother DNO with stuff on the DC side.

Option 3
Apply for G99 larger hybrid inverter, it’s a pre-install application and install whatever they allow you. In this case you could either swap out the existing inverter or add a second hybrid or battery inverter.
Nowty, technical question: If a there is already a G99 authorization for a inverter with inverting cpacity greater than 3.68kW, is there any need to inform thew DNO if it is swapped for an identically sized (or smaller!) inverter? Essentially the extrapolation from option 1 is that it isn't required, but I'm mindful that regulations can be written to require any change be informed.
Solar PV: 6.4kW solar PV (Eurener MEPV 400W*16)
PV Inverter: Solis 6kW inverter
Batteries: 14.4kWh LiFePO4 batteries (Pylontech US5000*3)
Battery Inverter: LuxPowertek 3600 ACS*2 battery inverter
WBS: 8kW Hunter Avalon 6 Multifuel burner (wood only)
User avatar
nowty
Posts: 5333
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 2:36 pm
Location: South Coast

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#28

Post by nowty »

Krill wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:15 pm
nowty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:14 pm
NoraBatty wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:02 pm
Batteries. Yes 48 of. They are connected to absolutely nothing.
They shipped over from china by Colin and are sat in their boxes.
I am awaiting 3 enclosures to be delivered, so making 3x16 strings as soin as delivery occurs.

Agile import
Fixed 15p export currently.

No EV, no plans for at least 10 years to get one either.
OK I did mean 3 x 16 batteries of course. :facepalm:

Your options are,

Option 1
Just swap the Solis with a 3.68kW hybrid inverter (any brand) and connect the batteries to them. I would not even bother contacting the DNO for this option as you already have the G98 approval and it would still be compliant. You could still add more panels down the DC charge controller route and no need to contact the DNO.

Option 2
Keep the current 3kW Solis as is.
Buy a second hybrid or battery inverter to connect the batteries to. If the second inverter is 3.68kW, then it’s a simple post install G99 fast track application, not much different from a G98 application. You can then add panels with DC charge controllers and supplementary grid battery chargers if you want faster charging to take advantage of agile price dips. No need to bother DNO with stuff on the DC side.

Option 3
Apply for G99 larger hybrid inverter, it’s a pre-install application and install whatever they allow you. In this case you could either swap out the existing inverter or add a second hybrid or battery inverter.
Nowty, technical question: If a there is already a G99 authorization for a inverter with inverting cpacity greater than 3.68kW, is there any need to inform thew DNO if it is swapped for an identically sized (or smaller!) inverter? Essentially the extrapolation from option 1 is that it isn't required, but I'm mindful that regulations can be written to require any change be informed.
I'd make sure the inverter was on the ENA approved type test list and any G100 export limitation (if applicable) was still compliant and set to the approved export limitation.
16.9kW PV > 104MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 21MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 500 m3
NoraBatty
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:40 am

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#29

Post by NoraBatty »

Out of interest, does anyone know why the victron multiplus II 48/5000 is rated as g98and g99 compliant?!

It clearly is capable of exporting more than 3.68kw.
Is this purely because commissioning is able to lock export at 3.68kw, so that homeowners cannot fiddle and get more?
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
3152W RE, Whitelaw Brae
Octopus agile/outgoing fixed 15p

Planned;
Hybrid system
43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
6-8+kw solar, DC connected.
NoraBatty
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:40 am

Re: Fastest charge inverters

#30

Post by NoraBatty »

Right.
I think, i have arrived at a solution, but would like some confirmation on if my thinking is correct.
I would like to keep the whole ecosystem the same.

We have used victron 12v solar controllers for many years (decades) on our boat and it has served us very well. Bomb proof, though we have no other experience of use. victron kit is most likely to be the choice, given the expandability, and complete ecosystem solution. I know i could do it cheaper, but, it is what it is.

Victron do a multiplus II, 48/3000 that obviously meets g98, and is sized well for the 2.7kw roof pv.
This is a 2.4kw output apparently. (So call it 2.4🙄)

2.4kw is not enough for my domestic loads in winter, half of the time.
So if i parallel 2, i can put in a g99 sgi-1, as has been suggested above.

I presume, i can then limit export to the 3.68kw needed, via the controllers, but, still gain access to the 4.8kw output for the domestic load.

Is this thinking correct, or have i missed something, like needing G100 and a CT clamp?

Krill mentioned turning a 2nd inverter on and off as needed for domestic load, and only using it as a charger in normal use. .
I can certainly do that, but depending how easy that is to do, would prefer to not have to worry about it, and have it automatically kick to supplying domestic load when needed. It then gices the possibility of doing this with a 3rd inverter and taking advantage of a maximum of 7.2kw for domestic load, should our need ever change to be this high.

I cannot for the life of me see why the victron system would not do all of that automatically, but of course, that doesnt mean it will.

Am i on the right lines?

It then gives the option, of getting a full g99 application in, down the line for the same kit, and opening it up to its max export potential.
2.7kw Canadian solar. roof. 3kw solis G98 mcs
12kw midea ASHP
200l hot water
3152W RE, Whitelaw Brae
Octopus agile/outgoing fixed 15p

Planned;
Hybrid system
43kwh eve batteries, 3x16 280A
6-8+kw solar, DC connected.
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