HELP PLEASE

[Mart]

SNIP

The rules on FiT “generation” equipment swap-out mellowed about 18 months ago. If you leave as is you cant be criticised in any way even though they are really only interested in a FiT capacity increase. A year ago I replaced 16 x 250W panels with 10 x 400W panels on my FiT system. You may ask why I did that? Easy, the new config uses a lot less roof space which I then put extra panels (non FiT) onto. The price of panels has plummeted in the last year as many on here know. Ironically the price of SE optimisers is now approaching the price of panels!

SNIP

Hope these comments help.

Rob

KUNFOOSED is moi. I thought i was unable to make any changes to my FIT system like putting bigger panels on. TEN 8.33 430W panels would be lovely this was my initial plan BUT I was told I cannot make any changes to my FIT system

When the SOLIS inverter went POP!! the inverter was not replaced like for like, however obviously then the system was changed to the Solar Edge system BUT without any increase in panels or fitting bigger ones like I was initially sold.

thanks

David

Hiya. You can change the equipment of your FiT system, afterall, if an old panel dies today, you'd struggle to find one of a similar power, and inverters will of course fail eventually over time.

I've been chatting with my FiT provider about changes to my system and they have no problem. My correspondence dates back about 6yrs, but I was waiting for battery costs to fall, to combine the expansion with the VAT battery savings. Then leccy prices went up, driving up PV and battery costs, and then this year the VAT on batts was dropped if colocated with PV, but not installed at the same time.

Also the OFGEM guidance was terrible before, implying that you couldn't change anything, but due to poor wording. A year or so ago, they acknowledged this, and changed the wording to make it clear you can change/upgrade a FiT system.

So ..... for example, say you have a 3kWp system and generate about 3,000kWh pa, but you add 3kWp more panels to the system, or even replace the existing 3kWp panels with 6kWp panels, then your FiT provider will now apportion your FiT payments in the ratio of 3:6 (FiT contract v's new total). So if you now generate 6,000kWh they'd be paying out on a 3:6 ratio (or 1:2 or 1/2).*

If your new panels go through a separate inverter/generation meter, then of course it doesn't matter as it doesn't affect the FiT readings.

For export, not the FiT generation subsidy, then you are of course allowed to move this anytime from the FiT 50% deemed, to an export rate with your leccy supplier. This becomes more important if you upgrade the FiT system, since in the example above you'd be getting the export rate on the 3,000kWh at a deemed 50% so paid out on 1,500kWh. After the upgrade, you'd still be getting paid on 1,500kWh, despite the increase in export, which might have (theoretically) increased from 1,500kWh to 4,500kWh.

*Worth mentioning that whilst the change is apportioned directly on size, the orientation of the panels, and therefore their output may vary. So, if as in my plans, the additional panels face south, but the existing FiT panels face east, then the increased generation may be proportionally more, than the size increase. Of course for many, the opposite may be true, where the new panels are added to less favourable locations, as PV costs fall. Also need to consider the inverter size and capping, since if it can't be increased, then some of the increased PV size, may end up capped, reducing the annual increase in generation (proportionately).

[FlyingScot]

SNIP

The rules on FiT “generation” equipment swap-out mellowed about 18 months ago. If you leave as is you cant be criticised in any way even though they are really only interested in a FiT capacity increase. A year ago I replaced 16 x 250W panels with 10 x 400W panels on my FiT system. You may ask why I did that? Easy, the new config uses a lot less roof space which I then put extra panels (non FiT) onto. The price of panels has plummeted in the last year as many on here know. Ironically the price of SE optimisers is now approaching the price of panels!

SNIP

Hope these comments help.

Rob

KUNFOOSED is moi. I thought i was unable to make any changes to my FIT system like putting bigger panels on. TEN 8.33 430W panels would be lovely this was my initial plan BUT I was told I cannot make any changes to my FIT system

When the SOLIS inverter went POP!! the inverter was not replaced like for like, however obviously then the system was changed to the Solar Edge system BUT without any increase in panels or fitting bigger ones like I was initially sold.

thanks



David

Hiya. You can change the equipment of your FiT system, afterall, if an old panel dies today, you'd struggle to find one of a similar power, and inverters will of course fail eventually over time.

YES I have already had an inverter fail on my FIT system and simultaneously had the system changed to a SolarEdge system with Power Optimisers {NOT MY CHOICE} but the company who did the work were SolarEdge 'people' {SolarEdge are a very proprietary company and like to keep everything 'in house'} My SolarEdge inverter is a SE3680H inverter and I do not think it is a hybrid one BUT THEN SolarEdge Hybrid inverters ONLY USE the SolarEdge HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERIES, so I could not use any industry standard 48V battery with this inverter even if this was a SE Hybrid Inverter

I've been chatting with my FiT provider about changes to my system and they have no problem.

Chatting or written correspondence? My Chat with a Scottish Power's supposedly expert technical engineer was 'garbage'

My correspondence dates back about 6yrs, but I was waiting for battery costs to fall, to combine the expansion with the VAT battery savings. Then leccy prices went up, driving up PV and battery costs, and then this year the VAT on batts was dropped if colocated with PV, but not installed at the same time.

Also the OFGEM guidance was terrible before, implying that you couldn't change anything, but due to poor wording. A year or so ago, they acknowledged this, and changed the wording to make it clear you can change/upgrade a FiT system.

So ..... for example, say you have a 3kWp system and generate about 3,000kWh pa, but you add 3kWp more panels to the system, or even replace the existing 3kWp panels with 6kWp panels, then your FiT provider will now apportion your FiT payments in the ratio of 3:6 (FiT contract v's new total). So if you now generate 6,000kWh they'd be paying out on a 3:6 ratio (or 1:2 or 1/2).*

I have 3755W of PV and a 3.68 kW Inverter and generated 2.7kW 5/4/2023 to 5/4/2024 - so a real time real life loss of say 27% my best year 2022 I generated acording to my SolarEdge App 3.13kW MY PREFERRED UPGRADE to the FIT System would be to replace my 15 250W panels and 3,68kW inverter with 10 {12 would be awesome} 8.88 430W panels (based on past performance real life generation should be around 3.6 kW about a 33% performance upgrade) and the VE 48/5000 inverter charger AND add two Pylon US5000 batteries BUT I think SP my FIT people would not allow me to charge my batteries from the FIT PV (I am assuming that the Multiplus II will prioritise battery charging before export) and then pay me for all the PV energy my panels generated. THOUGH I am told that fitting batteries will not affect my FIT generation numbers BUT adding MORE PV with better performing panels is not as simple as just being paid of the energy generated as some sort of percentage adjustment is made to account for the increase in the systems performance. Increasing confused is MOI :-(

My previous understanding was that my batteries and Inverter/charger (cannot be part of a FIT Upgrade) and have to be a separate standalone system connected to the AC after the FIT meter and before my smart meter

If your new panels go through a separate inverter/generation meter, then of course it doesn't matter as it doesn't affect the FiT readings.

THIS I DO UNDERSTAND

For export, not the FiT generation subsidy, then you are of course allowed to move this anytime from the FiT 50% deemed, to an export rate with your leccy supplier.

THIS WAS MY PLAN

NOW it seems KISS and just leave the FIT system alone {for now} and have a Multiplus II inverter charger and batteries fed from and feeding the ring main, connected after the FIT meter and before the Smart Meter and once the garage is built add solar to that system

This becomes more important if you upgrade the FiT system, since in the example above you'd be getting the export rate on the 3,000kWh at a deemed 50% so paid out on 1,500kWh. After the upgrade, you'd still be getting paid on 1,500kWh, despite the increase in export, which might have (theoretically) increased from 1,500kWh to 4,500kWh.

YES BUT that assumes that I do not actually use any of the energy that I have generated from the PV

*Worth mentioning that whilst the change is apportioned directly on size, the orientation of the panels, and therefore their output may vary. So, if as in my plans, the additional panels face south, but the existing FiT panels face east, then the increased generation may be proportionally more, than the size increase. Of course for many, the opposite may be true, where the new panels are added to less favourable locations, as PV costs fall. Also need to consider the inverter size and capping, since if it can't be increased, then some of the increased PV size, may end up capped, reducing the annual increase in generation (proportionately).

ATM my FIT panels face about 225 degrees and the proposed upgrade on the soon-to-be built garage roof will face 130 degrees, but I may add some on the other roof surface which will face 310 degrees. I was even contemplating moving the ridge of the roof so that the surface that faces 130 degrees is much much larger than the other roof surface, but I think that would look horrible

[nowty]

Everything Mart has put in his very elegant email is correct. I understand that some FIT providers are not interested in playing ball but you need to speak to the right person and quote the relevant OFGEM rules.

Links to the latest guidance to FIT generators including adding storage.

General guidance for FIT Generators.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/ ... %20v17.pdf

Guidance on adding storage to FIT installations.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/ ... 20v6.1.pdf

[Mart]

I've been chatting with my FiT provider about changes to my system and they have no problem.

Chatting or written correspondence? My Chat with a Scottish Power's supposedly expert technical engineer was 'garbage'

Hi, some chats way back, but multiple e-mails many years ago, where I asked the same question in different ways, just to get confirmation 'in writing' over and over. [I'm with EDF, and their green team is very helpful.]

My most recent correspondence by e-mail was this year, talking about adding batteries, then asking about swopping existing panels for better ones, and lastly asking about adding DC side batteries.

It's all OK, although with DC side batts, you will need a bi-directional meter to replace the normal one, so that grid charging that goes through the meter, through the inverter and into the battery, will be knocked off, before it comes back ot when needed. In fact, charging a DC side battery that's behind a meter on which you get FiT will cost you:

- Let's assume 10% losses for the charge/discharge cycle as an example. Then 10kWh of grid leccy will knock 10kWh off your meter, but by the time it's gone through the inverter twice, and you lose, say, 10%, then the meter will only show +9kWh coming back out, so a 1kWh loss on your FiT.

This becomes more important if you upgrade the FiT system, since in the example above you'd be getting the export rate on the 3,000kWh at a deemed 50% so paid out on 1,500kWh. After the upgrade, you'd still be getting paid on 1,500kWh, despite the increase in export, which might have (theoretically) increased from 1,500kWh to 4,500kWh.

YES BUT that assumes that I do not actually use any of the energy that I have generated from the PV

Correct, but 1, it was purely meant as an example, 2, the more PV you add, the greater the export will probably be from the additional amounts, 3, even if the export has only increased from 1,500kWh to 1,501kWh you will now be getting paid less (proportionately) for your export, 4, that's why I specifically said (theoretically), just to make the point clear.

It may not be clear, but the export amount is based on an estimated 50% of the original size generation, so therefore the export payments (like the FiT subsidy payments) won't increase, even if your system size is 2, 3, or 10 times greater.

[Mart]

Dug up some of the e-mail correspondence from March this year. My questions/approach were carefully worded to ensure that a positive reply from them would cover my back, especially if I got a nice yes, but it was in any way ambiguous:

Hi, I wanted to check some info about a change to my PV setup. I did ask about this quite a few years ago, but wanted to double check that nothing had changed.

So, I'm looking to add some panels to the existing setup, and wanted to check that that was OK, and wouldn't affect my current FiT contract - but would mean payments in the future (after the upgrade) would be pro-rata relative to the original and revised kWp of the system. So, for instance, if I doubled the kWp size of the system, then payments would be based on my readings divided by 2 (purely as an example)?

Could you just re-assure me, that my understanding is correct, before I do anything.

Many thanks.

Mart.

The reply:

Dear Mr James

FIT ID: FITxxxxxxxx-x

Thank you for your email.

Your understanding is correct.

If you increase the capacity of your accredited installation. To enable us to update our records and to ensure that future Feed in Tariff payments are correct, please provide the following information:

• The date of this change
• How many new panels have been installed and what was the individual wattage of each panel
• MPAN that the panels have been wired into – Your installer will be able to provide you with this information if you are unsure
• Meter serial number that the panels are attached to
• Total installed capacity of your system – how may panels are now fitted and the individual wattage of each panel
• Generation meter reading taken on this date. Please note, if this was not taken, an estimated meter reading may be used to calculate a payment up to the date of this change
• A letter or email from your installer to confirm the details of the work carried out and the reason for the change.
• Have any other changes been made to your existing accredited installation – if so, please list below
Any additional information deemed relevant to this change
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Battery

Please confirm if you have had a battery storage system installed to your solar panels. If so, please provide a schematic diagram showing the location of the battery within the Solar PV system. This diagram will need to show the following information:

• The full address of the installation and date of installation
• Can the battery charge from the National Grid?
• Is the generation meter a bi directional net meter

If you have any questions regarding this or general questions about the FIT scheme, please contact our us by email at feedintariffs@edfenergy.com.

[Mart]

Further help, if anyone is looking, as this has been a bit of a passion project of mine for a decade, to let people know they can make changes to a FiT system.

The problem is that OFGEM had the simple answer of 'No' to the question "Can I extend my installation?" with regard to FiT. This fairly left everyone certain it couldn't be done, but the wording is terrible and seems to mean extending the FiT part, rather than extending the physical installation, hence the confusion.

This is explained in my post of 27th June 2022 on the MSE site, and then clarified in my post 4th August 2022 when I found the revised OFGEM guidance and they'd noticed the confusion themselves, saying:

In recent years, we have seen an increasing number of queries from generators and industry stakeholders seeking clarity on how certain changes, repairs or replacement of generating equipment may affect an installation’s accreditation to the FIT scheme.

So that second post of mine has (hopefully) outlined the important paragraphs

Expanding Existing Solar System and adding battery and keeping fits payments


Hence why even some FiT providers are still a bit confused, and why nowty's comment that you may need to speak to 'the right person' is so, so spot on.

[FlyingScot]

Dug up some of the e-mail correspondence from March this year. My questions/approach were carefully worded to ensure that a positive reply from them would cover my back, especially if I got a nice yes, but it was in any way ambiguous:

Hi, I wanted to check some info about a change to my PV setup. I did ask about this quite a few years ago, but wanted to double check that nothing had changed.

So, I'm looking to add some panels to the existing setup, and wanted to check that that was OK, and wouldn't affect my current FiT contract - but would mean payments in the future (after the upgrade) would be pro-rata relative to the original and revised kWp of the system. So, for instance, if I doubled the kWp size of the system, then payments would be based on my readings divided by 2 (purely as an example)?

WOW so IF you double your generation ability, your generation payments are ONLY based on the existing FIT Contract

Could you just re-assure me, that my understanding is correct, before I do anything.

Many thanks.

Mart.

The reply:

Dear Mr James

FIT ID: FITxxxxxxxx-x

Thank you for your email.

Your understanding is correct.

If you increase the capacity of your accredited installation. To enable us to update our records and to ensure that future Feed in Tariff payments are correct, NOT CORRECT as to the amount of energy you generate and that we will pay you for - BUT meeting and limited to the FIT Contract we hold for your installation please provide the following information:

• The date of this change
• How many new panels have been installed and what was the individual wattage of each panel
• MPAN that the panels have been wired into – Your installer will be able to provide you with this information if you are unsure
• Meter serial number that the panels are attached to
• Total installed capacity of your system – how may panels are now fitted and the individual wattage of each panel
• Generation meter reading taken on this date. Please note, if this was not taken, an estimated meter reading may be used to calculate a payment up to the date of this change
• A letter or email from your installer to confirm the details of the work carried out and the reason for the change.
• Have any other changes been made to your existing accredited installation – if so, please list below
Any additional information deemed relevant to this change
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Battery

Please confirm if you have had a battery storage system installed to your solar panels. If so, please provide a schematic diagram showing the location of the battery within the Solar PV system. This diagram will need to show the following information:

• The full address of the installation and date of installation
• Can the battery charge from the National Grid?
• Is the generation meter a bi directional net meter

If you have any questions regarding this or general questions about the FIT scheme, please contact our us by email at feedintariffs@edfenergy.com.