Home Battery without Solar

[AGT]

I like reading these threads as you see how other people are approaching these issues. However i am amazed at how much money people will throw at a problem to save little. In this whole thread there is not one mention of insulation which for many is the most cost effective eg old leaky houses.

Some of the simple things seem to be completely lost on some people like turning down the indoor temp. Some of these people could save a 1/3rd of the household bills by taking quite simple measures and 50% if they invested a LITTLE money wisely.

Some have clearly not heard of "diminishing returns " and clearly willing to spend to achieve 100% of something when that does not make economic sense when compared to the alternatives. eg to create a heating system which can cater for just 10days of "beast from the east" or creating a battery system to get off the grid.

Some of what i read on here could be acieved by simple life changes eg by better control of heater times and only heating HW when the CH is on if on gas.

PS best not talk about people driving jacked up tanks which cost more than a few £ of leccy.

The OP never asked about insulation, quite happy to bang on about it but he was asking about a battery.

[AE-NMidlands]

I like reading these threads as you see how other people are approaching these issues. However i am amazed at how much money people will throw at a problem to save little. In this whole thread there is not one mention of insulation which for many is the most cost effective eg old leaky houses.

Some of the simple things seem to be completely lost on some people like turning down the indoor temp. Some of these people could save a 1/3rd of the household bills by taking quite simple measures and 50% if they invested a LITTLE money wisely.

Some have clearly not heard of "diminishing returns " and clearly willing to spend to achieve 100% of something when that does not make economic sense when compared to the alternatives. eg to create a heating system which can cater for just 10days of "beast from the east" or creating a battery system to get off the grid.

Some of what i read on here could be acieved by simple life changes eg by better control of heater times and only heating HW when the CH is on if on gas.
PS best not talk about people driving jacked up tanks which cost more than a few £ of leccy.

The OP never asked about insulation, quite happy to bang on about it but he was asking about a battery.

but there was discussion of massive electric heating loads (and the cost of servicing them,) so it would be wrong not to point out/remind ourselves that you can get a lot more bang for your buck by draughtproofing, insulating and turning thermostats down...
Gas might be a baddie, but it is still a lot cheaper than electricity if you haven't got an ev.

[ALAN/ALAN D]

Insulation.

My house is timber frame with brick outside walls.

What insulation can i fit inside the brick cavity. ?

[HML]

I like reading these threads as you see how other people are approaching these issues. However i am amazed at how much money people will throw at a problem to save little. In this whole thread there is not one mention of insulation which for many is the most cost effective eg old leaky houses.

Some of the simple things seem to be completely lost on some people like turning down the indoor temp. Some of these people could save a 1/3rd of the household bills by taking quite simple measures and 50% if they invested a LITTLE money wisely.

Some have clearly not heard of "diminishing returns " and clearly willing to spend to achieve 100% of something when that does not make economic sense when compared to the alternatives. eg to create a heating system which can cater for just 10days of "beast from the east" or creating a battery system to get off the grid.

Some of what i read on here could be acieved by simple life changes eg by better control of heater times and only heating HW when the CH is on if on gas.

PS best not talk about people driving jacked up tanks which cost more than a few £ of leccy.

Some do it for reasons other than money.

I started playing with battery storage in 2014, well before all these pre-packaged battery systems were available. I knew that it was going to be an expense that would never be recovered, but I like tinkering with these things. At that time you had to spend some time and effort researching, then designing and installing the system. (Today you just buy a box and plug it in.)

So you have the pleasure of having achieved something and having independence from the grid.

I recently finished changing the central heating to an ASHP. That will never be cost effective either, but the same issues apply; designing a system for a house with large heating load but a low water temperature = high CoP. It's remarkably satisfying to find the system that you designed actually works with a flow temperature of 35C. Now we don't have gas in the house, which is a big positive for me, and we don't burn any fossil fuels directly and very little indirectly.

Of course, all the draft proofing, practicable insulation, heating controls temperature setting had been done well before these hobby projects started.

[GarethC]

I like reading these threads as you see how other people are approaching these issues. However i am amazed at how much money people will throw at a problem to save little. In this whole thread there is not one mention of insulation which for many is the most cost effective eg old leaky houses.

Some of the simple things seem to be completely lost on some people like turning down the indoor temp. Some of these people could save a 1/3rd of the household bills by taking quite simple measures and 50% if they invested a LITTLE money wisely.

Some have clearly not heard of "diminishing returns " and clearly willing to spend to achieve 100% of something when that does not make economic sense when compared to the alternatives. eg to create a heating system which can cater for just 10days of "beast from the east" or creating a battery system to get off the grid.

Some of what i read on here could be acieved by simple life changes eg by better control of heater times and only heating HW when the CH is on if on gas.

PS best not talk about people driving jacked up tanks which cost more than a few £ of leccy.

Hi Ken,

For Victorian, Georgian and other I'm not sure. Given solid walls, sash windows, awkward to insulate floors and sometimes cornicing, insulation can be a massive expense and disruption. Draught proofing, loft insulation if you can and some other measures are no brainers, but beyond that I'm not sure.

After the very few low hanging fruit, I suspect that replacing fossil fuel heating systems with a heat pump and/or storage heater system should be the next step, and only if it proves unable to meet heat demand in practise should the householder go to the expense of further insulation (or just get used to slightly lower temps).

Especially since the insulation work itself has embedded carbon and generates waste.

Actually before ALL of that I agree about lifestyle changes. We just don't have a problem living at 16 degrees with a couple of extra layers on. Smashes our heat demand, costs and emissions at a stroke, and makes it more likely a heat pump will do the trick without lots of insulation.

[Stig]

Insulation.

My house is timber frame with brick outside walls.

What insulation can i fit inside the brick cavity. ?

Same for me, there's 50mm rockwool between the timber apparently (my neighbour found when building an extension) so it's replace that with Celotex etc. (means ripping out all the plasterboard) or add internal insulation and make an already small house even smaller. From what I've read, the cavity (between timber and brick) has to be ventilated to avoid the timber rotting away.
I've just topped up the loft insulation and tried to reduce draughts, I've come to accept it's not going to get much better than that.

[Ken]

Hi Ken,

For Victorian, Georgian and other I'm not sure. Given solid walls, sash windows, awkward to insulate floors and sometimes cornicing, insulation can be a massive expense and disruption. Draught proofing, loft insulation if you can and some other measures are no brainers, but beyond that I'm not sure.

After the very few low hanging fruit, I suspect that replacing fossil fuel heating systems with a heat pump and/or storage heater system should be the next step, and only if it proves unable to meet heat demand in practise should the householder go to the expense of further insulation (or just get used to slightly lower temps).

Especially since the insulation work itself has embedded carbon and generates waste.

Actually before ALL of that I agree about lifestyle changes. We just don't have a problem living at 16 degrees with a couple of extra layers on. Smashes our heat demand, costs and emissions at a stroke, and makes it more likely a heat pump will do the trick without lots of insulation.

Hi Gareth,
Thanks for your balanced response, you clearly have an understanding of the subject unlike the masses outside the rarefied air of those on these forums.
True there are too many cases which all differ slightly.

Like you i had the loft insulation done but most of my improvements over the years i dont think of as costing much because i have done them when sensible eg when needing carpets i payed the extra for the thickest underlay and sealed up all the floorboard joints and joint between floor and skirting board, something which anybody can do.
When it comes to replacing windows for frames or panels is when needs to pay for a significant improvement. My son had his sash windows replaced with plastic ones and what an improvement but the real take home was that as you walked down the street you could not distinguish between the original wood or the new plastic.

I stand to be corrected but i thought external insulation to a solid wall was cost effective. There used to be a grant for it, possibly still is.

By halfing the energy requirements one halfes the capital cost, halfes the running cost or even more wth a HP due to the effect of COP.

Ken

[Ken]

Insulation.

My house is timber frame with brick outside walls.

What insulation can i fit inside the brick cavity. ?

Nothing would be cost effective but i think i failed to get my message across. I am referring to things which cost next to nothing to do.

As a further eg People have new double glazing fitted and pay EXTRA for POORER by having loads of small opening windows (the installers love it) I have seen houses where the glass is less than 50% of the opening and then they go and fit bits of plastic over it to create a nought and crosses board !
and then go and put the lights on !! madness.

[AGT]

Maybe some people like to have that style of windows?

Maybe some people like to not sit in the dark!

Lighten up mate

[Comper]

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