Batteries

[ALAN/ALAN D]

Hello Gents
Are these worth a purchase.
Says New. But have they been charged since January 2021.
Any one using this type. ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224975309745 ... 0903.m5276

[marshman]

They are NOT designed for constant "deep cycling". They are UPS type "emergency back up". So if using them for solar PV battery storage and you want a long life from them then you probably need to restrict the max DOD to around 20% max. At that level they work out around 400Wh for £130 so around £318 per kWh of useable storage, and that is just for the battery, not including cables and BMS. A price not dissimilar to new Pylontechs that will have a 10 year warantee and are designed for many thousands of cycles have built in BMS that talks to most inverters and also includes link cables. They are also heavy ! A few years back before Pylontech/Growatt etc. might have been worth a look but now in my opinion they are not worth the hassle/gamble.

[Stinsy]

+1 for “Lead is Dead”.

LiFePO4 just compares so favourably on a whole bunch of measures: long lifespan, can be cycled deeply every day, low self-discharge rate, round-trip efficiency, weight, etc.

The batteries linked to are designed to sit there fully charged only being cycled in the event of an emergency. Every time they’re discharged will damage them permanently.

[billi]

+1 for “Lead is Dead”.

Sure counts for those mentioned


Does not count for other lead acid ones, to be frank . same cash spent on a good lead acid battery will provide much more independency than a tiny other one

[Stinsy]

+1 for “Lead is Dead”.

Sure counts for those mentioned


Does not count for other lead acid ones, to be frank . same cash spent on a good lead acid battery will provide much more independency than a tiny other one

There was a time when that was true. And people installed lead despite understanding the drawbacks purely on a £/kWh basis. But now the prices are much closer…

[ClockmanFRA]

+1 for “Lead is Dead”.

Sure counts for those mentioned


Does not count for other lead acid ones, to be frank . same cash spent on a good lead acid battery will provide much more independency than a tiny other one

There was a time when that was true. And people installed lead despite understanding the drawbacks purely on a £/kWh basis. But now the prices are much closer…

2022, My independent and non-commercial connected research across the World, still shows that simple good quality Lead Acid is still way better than the modern battery tech, especially with cost effectiveness in Price and Quality.

My friends that have experimented with Off Grid modern batteries, mostly LIFE PO4, have had serious issues with BMS. And these are systems that have been running/limping for over 9 years now, so i value their honest opinions.

[Joeboy]

Sure counts for those mentioned


Does not count for other lead acid ones, to be frank . same cash spent on a good lead acid battery will provide much more independency than a tiny other one

There was a time when that was true. And people installed lead despite understanding the drawbacks purely on a £/kWh basis. But now the prices are much closer…

2022, My independent and non-commercial connected research across the World, still shows that simple good quality Lead Acid is still way better than the modern battery tech, especially with cost effectiveness in Price and Quality.

My friends that have experimented with Off Grid modern batteries, mostly LIFE PO4, have had serious issues with BMS. And these are systems that have been running/limping for over 9 years now, so i value their honest opinions.

I'd be interested to read which batteries they are using? In the 5 years i've been running Pylontechs I have had no issues with BMS, indeed no issues at all. Increase the hive mind knowledge? Love the solar trees btw, very art form.

[Marcus]

+1 for Billi's comments - i would be considering a forklift type battery: even if i could verify the condition of those AGMs, their asking price may be a tad high, and whilst they can be made to work, you might not want to learn everything you need to to keep such batteries happy on a solar based system.

It is true that lifepo have come closer in price terms and they have higher efficiency and are lower maintenance, but you are still dependent on the BMS and I'm not sure how well their claimed lifespan has been proven yet.

My other reason for siding with lead acid though is that there is an uncertain amount of environmental cost in making lifepo and end of life recycling is uncertain, compared with an established lead acid recycling system that recycles 97% of the battery (which incidentally provides a significant 'money back deposit' when you have to buy a replacement), and whilst there is a clear need for lifepo for mobile applications e.i. EV's, the argument for taking up available batteries for stationary applications is questionable IMHO.

[nowty]

Excellent we have the old lead vs li-on debate, seems like the old days.

I've had both forklift LA, pylontechs LIFEPO4 and re-used growatt LMCO with my own BMS.

There are no right or wrong answers, both have their pros and cons and it comes down to your system, where you store your batteries and how much maintenance your willing to put up with.

But I would steer clear of those ebay UPS type ones (same reasons as has been posted) unless they are exceptionally cheap which they are not. If you want LA for whatever reason then forklift cells are the recommended ones for regular cycling. But you need to be happy with sulphuric acid, explosive corrosive gasses, taking SG readings, regular distilled watering, doing EQ charges, ensuring no deep discharges or lingering at low SOC, long absorption charging times for the last 15%.

I don't miss any of that.

[Stinsy]

Sure counts for those mentioned


Does not count for other lead acid ones, to be frank . same cash spent on a good lead acid battery will provide much more independency than a tiny other one

There was a time when that was true. And people installed lead despite understanding the drawbacks purely on a £/kWh basis. But now the prices are much closer…

2022, My independent and non-commercial connected research across the World, still shows that simple good quality Lead Acid is still way better than the modern battery tech, especially with cost effectiveness in Price and Quality.

My friends that have experimented with Off Grid modern batteries, mostly LIFE PO4, have had serious issues with BMS. And these are systems that have been running/limping for over 9 years now, so i value their honest opinions.

Again, there was a time when this was true. 10 years ago there were LiFePO4 batteries sold with failure-prone BMSs. In fact you could buy good quality LiFePO4 batteries for cheap because they were hobbled by a failed BMS. But this no-longer the case. LiFePO4 batteries come with decade-long warranties and they are expected to still be working at full efficiency (but slightly reduced capacity) long after that.