camelot-forum.co.uk

My first post so hello all.

I am going to go off grid and install 14.4kw of solar panels (which I have already)
Because of a hill behind me I have decided for winter months to have the SolarEdge system for the optimisers and panel by panel monitoring.

The system has a big company behind it and loads of tech support so I am happy to use their kit in general but my only gripe is they seem to only allow
LG-Chem batteries and their own that is fairly new.

I hate being tied in to all one companies kit and the batteries Kw for Kw are expensive compared to others.

I want to use Pylontech batteries or other and have a 20kw energy bank.
Does anyone know how I can do this?

At the moment I will use an automatic transfer switch, so when the sun goes down it switches to the batteries or manual throw over.

later I will make all the relevant applications to the DNO for the system to go on grid which I know is not that straight forward for the size, that is why I am just going to go off grid for this winter through to late next spring. The electric bills we got last winter were ridiculous (£900/qtr) but we do use some for heating.

So presuming later we had DNO approval for 14kw and I was using Solaredge PV system and 20kw of batteries, instead of using the automatic transfer switch would I just use for instance a Victron Multiplus inverter charger to the batteries on the grid side of supply? I think this is what is called A.C coupled?

So basically the solaredge system would be stand alone and the batteries with it's own inverter charger coupled to the a.c incomer would be stand alone but would in effect be the automatic transfer switch, but I would power the charger from a spare mcb circuit in consumer unit, fed from solar inverter?

Somehow I think I am missing something and it would be easier to just go with solaredge batteries and their 'storedge interface', but that is not only a very expensive battery I want the option of adding 3 or 5Kwh battery add ons and not 10Kw at a time.

Anyone here using solaredge?

You mention going off grid then making the application for connection later, not sure that would be possible as assuming your inverters will be grid tied?
Solaredge inverters can limit their export to the grid so you should be able to get a connection but will be limited in export to what the DNO says you can have.

Welcome to the forum. I have Solaredge on a E/W orientation. I have been growing a second offgrid system over the last couple of years which is on a SSE orientation and closely matched in size to the Solaredge system. The second system wins most days for output by a couple of percent. If I did it all again with what I now know I would likely NOT go Solaredge until I had fully focused on my best orientation and maxed out its potential output. If I then wanted to squeeze more out of my land and had less favored orientation I'd look to Solaredge then, maybe....

https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... f=11&t=271

There is a LOT if info on this sub board. Well worth repeat reading.
https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=14

Welcome.

This brings up the interesting question as to which, out of all the available optimising systems/devices works the best, is most reliable and is best value for money. There are several systems that are intended to compensate for panel shading, ranging from microinverters (made by at least half a dozen different companies) to panel optimisers that will work with any make of inverter, plus some systems that integrate panel optimisers with the inverter to try and give slightly better performance.

I've absolutely no idea which option is best, but purely on a reliability basis I suspect that one of the better makes of microinverter might be best for a system that must work all the time, like an off-grid one. Failure of one inverter would have little or no impact on overall performance for a large system like the one mentioned. Also, one of the main causes of inverter failure is ageing of the electrolytic capacitors within them, I believe, and at least one microinverter manufacturer has got around this by not using electrolytic capacitors, something they can do as the lower power of a microinverter makes it possible to use very long life capacitors of a different type. Enphase, for example, offer a 25 year warranty on their microinverters, which is a great deal longer than the warranty on most large inverters.

Joeboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:53 pm Welcome to the forum. I have Solaredge on a E/W orientation. I have been growing a second offgrid system over the last couple of years which is on a SSE orientation and closely matched in size to the Solaredge system. The second system wins most days for output by a couple of percent. If I did it all again with what I now know I would likely NOT go Solaredge until I had fully focused on my best orientation and maxed out its potential output. If I then wanted to squeeze more out of my land and had less favored orientation I'd look to Solaredge then, maybe....

https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... f=11&t=271

There is a LOT if info on this sub board. Well worth repeat reading.
https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=14

Thanks for replying, and the subboard links, much appreciated.

I am very fortunate in that my house faces North with a 'cat slide' roof at rear, so whereas a lot of average roofs are around 3.6m from Ridge to eaves mine is 3.6m on North and around 7.2m on the rear, so as far as roofs go for Solar you can't get much better, I have space for 36 400w panels ALL facing south!

Not so fortunate it's a damp old house, but that's a story for another day.

My issue is the hillside behind me (and one elevated singe story bungalow) both on the south side.
So rather than buy twice I decided already to go to the solaredge kit, it looks like I will have 3 strings. 5kw, 5kw and 4kw.

I did see this video after posting here yesterday and this actually explained alot. (especially the diagrams).


I also messaged a solar installer sparky who has installed a battery setup with solaredge optimiser system independent.
Which I gather is like one of the layouts in that video above.

Seems to me that the Solaredge kit is good kit but obviously you are tied to that system, but the fact that open circuit voltage is just 1v.d.c makes it very safe too. (notwithstanding that all good installations should be safe regardless of voltage). My main reason to go for the solaredge is they are not a quick Aliexpress or Alibaba start up knocking out inverters but a professional concern with all the expertise and R&D etc.
The panel by panel real time monitoring is a plus as is the that there is no chance of a string underperforming should one panel, cable or even a section of panel fail, if the system optimises and does that it has to be a winner. It will even flag up a dodgy MC4 connector!

So all told it seems to me that even if it were the case that a standard inverter were to give a few % better performance by fluke rather than design the amount of real time monitoring the solar edge system gives down to each panel has to be a bonus because if on a grey day you thought mmmmm? seems a bit low production today, a quick glance at the monitoring will tell you exactly what is going on.

Of course the problem is too that I am learning on the fly and the market is flooded with all kinds of inverters from cheap to expensive.

I think what I am sold on is the Victron multiplus ii gx version (wifi built in).


That guy mentions how the Victron works differently to most inverters in that it blends. (and he using for a EV car).

I also have watched this guys interesting videos who's system has evolved with multiple components.


So all told I think I will be looking at Solaredge and a victron ac coupled inverter charger and although the victron is an expensive item for the fact I will use that as purely a charger inverter and not putting the PV system into it, there is always the option to do that and no shadow of a doubt Victron kit is decent stuff.

And to add to the mix I bought a Solis S6 -GR1P 3.6kw K-M inverter two days ago, brand new in box ebay £268 inc delivery, so at least I can whack some panels up and start using that whilst I plan longer term.

Thanks again I am off to read the links you sent.

Fintray wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:35 pm You mention going off grid then making the application for connection later, not sure that would be possible as assuming your inverters will be grid tied?
Solaredge inverters can limit their export to the grid so you should be able to get a connection but will be limited in export to what the DNO says you can have.

Yeh, trouble is I am learning quickly and closing the door after the horse has bolted, chasing the horse all over the internet and then once caught it and put back in stable letting out again the next day.....rinse and repeat

I am guessing the DNOs are absolutely back logged with applications right now and I've decided to just get something up and running until next summer because my roof has 1970s fibreboard slates which are good for 20-25 yrs, well that's 40+ yrs ago now.

So I want to use the 'GSE integration' in roof trays with my 36 Perlite Delta 400w panels.
That way I will save a couple of grand on real slates, and end up with a 14.kw all black roof integrated system with just a few hundred new slates around the perimeter, oh and I also have two 1970's cedar 'velux' windows in middle of roof leaking like a sieve, so need to be replaced and integrate those too.

So all told, I need a new roof, two new velux, now with 36 PV panels taking up the vast proportion of where slates would be and design that so I can go to the DNO next year and say....o.k here's my application and design, what else do I need to make comply?

If that means having some of the 14.4kw totally off grid then so be it, trouble is going into winter now is not the time to change the roof but equally I don't want to be staring at over £4k electric bills this winter.

We have the GSE system with 25 black panels. Installed in 2014 and still working well. If I were doing it again I'd not use GSE though, as there is a significantly better and neater system available now from Viridian. I saw a Viridian system being installed recently and it's far better thought through than the GSE system. Our installer had a fair bit of problem solving to do with the GSE people, as they don't have very elegant solutions for things like internal corners or panels at the bottom of the roof.

We saved around £2k on slates by going for an in-roof system as well, and there is no doubt that it looks a great deal neater and tidier than having panels plonked on rails on top of a roof.

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:06 pm Welcome.

This brings up the interesting question as to which, out of all the available optimising systems/devices works the best, is most reliable and is best value for money. ..............

................one of the main causes of inverter failure is ageing of the electrolytic capacitors within them, I believe, and at least one microinverter manufacturer has got around this by not using electrolytic capacitors, something they can do as the lower power of a microinverter makes it possible to use very long life capacitors of a different type. Enphase, for example, offer a 25 year warranty on their microinverters, which is a great deal longer than the warranty on most large inverters.

I totally agree with you, it seems Enphase, Tigo and Solaredge are the market leaders and although I am not totally averse to buying cheap chinese tat when it suits the purpose, and have done many times, so cheap clone cordless batteries, cheap cordless strimmer, etc etc

In this case it's horses for courses, there's an old sailors saying ''don't sink the ship for an H'penny of tar''. So in this case I don't want to spend a few thousand on PV installations, in fact these price rises are very bad timing for me, but I also do not want to throw thousands down the drain to the electric utility supplier this winter too, so definitely in this case it is a long term investment in my energy supply, i.e secured and cheap in the long run.

So I am looking for quality components that are reliable for the next 10-20yrs.

I see you have Perlight panels, how have you found them to work for you?

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:18 pm We have the GSE system with 25 black panels. Installed in 2014 and still working well.

If I were doing it again I'd not use GSE though, as there is a significantly better and neater system available now from Viridian. I saw a Viridian system being installed recently and it's far better thought through than the GSE system.

Hey thanks for that, I will take a look at Viridian now!

Heliox wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:21 pm I see you have Perlight panels, how have you found them to work for you?

They've been fine, very little performance degradation in the 8 years the system's been up and running. I've just ordered 6 more Perlight panels to cover a canopy, and give us another 2.4kWp of capacity. Our main system covers the whole of the more or less South facing roof. Performs well, especially in summer, but we could do with more early morning generation to top the batteries back up after a night of discharging. The South facing system doesn't really get going until mid-morning.

I'm also hoping that we can get more winter generation. At the moment production falls off a cliff in October, with next to bugger all through until March. A little bit more could reduce the time we have to run from the grid in winter, perhaps knocking a couple of weeks off either end of the winter "dead period".