camelot-forum.co.uk

Just skimming through the news and spotted the article below re Europes biggest battery farm starting construction.
Guessing theres a thread around here some place already discussing the site in general given the subject, but was wondering how these sorts of sites deal with the issue of fire, in case of an issue? mUnlikely i know, but the UK loves a bit of Elf and Safety.

Think were all going to have seen the videos of dodgy Eboy etc electric bikes bursting into flames, but looking at the scale of this place (even with a top notch super safe install by leading professionals), im just wondering about how the guys in the big red fire engine would have a cat in hells chance of tackling something on this sort of scale if the smelly stuff hit the fan - particularly when sat on top of a huge coal field?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yd18q248jo

resybaby wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:15 am Just skimming through the news and spotted the article below re Europes biggest battery farm starting construction.
Guessing theres a thread around here some place already discussing the site in general given the subject, but was wondering how these sorts of sites deal with the issue of fire, in case of an issue? mUnlikely i know, but the UK loves a bit of Elf and Safety.

Think were all going to have seen the videos of dodgy Eboy etc electric bikes bursting into flames, but looking at the scale of this place (even with a top notch super safe install by leading professionals), im just wondering about how the guys in the big red fire engine would have a cat in hells chance of tackling something on this sort of scale if the smelly stuff hit the fan - particularly when sat on top of a huge coal field?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yd18q248jo

1) Understand that the risk of fire is low.
2) Take steps to make this very small risk minuscule, eg by preventing the batteries becoming physically damaged, preventing them from overheating, and preventing individual cells from becoming overcharged.
3) Ensure any fire is contained and doesn’t spread. This is usually achieved with appropriately spaced shipping containers. So that a fire takes out one container not the entire battery farm.

The main thing to understand is the risk of a fire in a phone/ laptop / or EV battery is several orders of magnitude higher than a battery farm. This is because the risk of physical damage is far higher and they are charged/discharged at a much higher rate in comparison to their capacity.

We had a site evacuation at the office a couple of years ago when a heat alarm went off in the attached data centre -one of the UPS batteries apparently. Three fire engines plus several other fire service cars/vans turned up (maybe it was a quiet day so they used it as a training opportunity) and the site was closed for 36hrs! It was obviously a big concern for the fire service -I think they sent someone in with breathing apparatus, I don't know it they used any extinguisher or just left it to cool down until deemed safe.
I'm guessing the batteries were older tech Li-ion but they're clearly difficult to put out if happens.

Battery fires are not new and are very serious when they happen but like any news about RE things move on. The chemistry of the latest batts is not like the old ones which could set alight in extreme conditions. The new ones now self exstinguish in a fire and one can drive nails into them as well as shoot them. So the chance of a fire is nearly zero and if one takes normal precautions like space them out and no inflammable materials around then the risk is way lower than many other things eg house fire or ICE engine fires. Lap tops and mobiles must be of higher risk?

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:22 am We had a site evacuation at the office a couple of years ago when a heat alarm went off in the attached data centre -one of the UPS batteries apparently. Three fire engines plus several other fire service cars/vans turned up (maybe it was a quiet day so they used it as a training opportunity) and the site was closed for 36hrs! It was obviously a big concern for the fire service -I think they sent someone in with breathing apparatus, I don't know it they used any extinguisher or just left it to cool down until deemed safe.
I'm guessing the batteries were older tech Li-ion but they're clearly difficult to put out if happens.

The breathing apparatus was probably because a "Haylon" (or whatever gas they use these days) fire extinguishing system is likely in a datacentre.

The problem with battery fires is that they bring their own oxygen so traditional methods of extinguishing are ineffective. So you have two options: 1) wait for it to burn itself out and prevent the fire from spreading or: 2) cool the battery with vast amounts of water to the point that it nolonger selfignites.

Yeah i suppose there is always the elements of preplanning, built in prevention and designing out of foreseen risk, but that 'butter side always lands down' law of sod can always creep in if humans are involved. Then once the dust has settled the usual excuse of 'we will learn the lessons', which of course never happens, lack of will or money. Im just a bit sceptical i suppose of siting a potentially uncontrolable fire risk on top of a load of coal.

In my water utility background, ive had to deal with rezoning water distribution networks more times than id like to remember, some with huge consequences, when the boys with the big red engine have struggled to put out a simple small fire through lack of resource, either manpower equipment and availible fluids. One numpty once filled the whole town of Falmouths (pop circ 20k people) mains drinking water network with salt water after poorly cross connecting the potable system and the sea with temporary hoses! Took weeks to sort out.

Hopefully a very very very large lake is proposed as well as many batteries, but id still not want to live next door.

Maybe they did not do enough planning here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/ce855z6z1d5o

Countrypaul wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:15 pm Maybe they did not do enough planning here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/ce855z6z1d5o

That's fake news!

Sure there is a fire at the power station. However, it is nowhere near the batteries!

This extract is notable to me

"Officials are not actively fighting the fire, the Monterey Sheriff spokesperson said, and are instead leaving the building and the batteries to burn on the advice of fire experts."

Appreciate this is an associated building. . . . but surely allowing the safer part of the site to just burn (either because they cannot fight it, or its not safe to do so).. i have to wonder what would happen IF any batteries themselves went up?

Anybody discussed their home installations with the local fire brigades at all?
Seems sensible to understand what they would/wouldnt do/expect in the case of a fire, especially if remote with minimal equipment in the area to fight any issues. Might just do that with my local lot (although i suspect they would be more worried about my firewood stock levels) when i get a chance.

Originally I was going to put my batteries in the under stairs cupboard until someone on here mentioned fires so then I bit the bullet and stuck them outside.

Having gone through the process once I would always opt for this route in future if I had to do more batteries for any of the kids houses.

I dont think fire is a massive risk but having them outside addresses a multitude of potential sins with no great cost or detriment.

Obviously everyone's home and circumstance is different.

Moxi