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A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:58 am
by Heroformosa
I'm sitting on an opportunity here, and wasting money! I have a 2.5kW Proven wind turbine (giving 240V), lying idle since changing my house heating system; a mains connected 11kW Ecodan ASHP, and am collecting a plug-in hybrid car next week. I'm starting from scratch, but want to set up a system to use the WT energy to supplement energy for the ASHP and/or the car. And there's plenty space for solar panels to add to the mix, if that makes sense.
Presumably a battery (make, size?) and a control system (whatever that might be) are the key missing components, and a sensible contract with an electricity supply company, but beyond that I have not understanding of what I need, in detail. I live on Scotland's far NW coast so there's no local source of expertise if I want to hand it over to a commercial installer. Electricians I've spoken to, and even the Energy Saving Trust have all said "Gosh, that's a good idea, but we don't know how to do it, though I'm sure it can be done. Good luck, Bye...."
I'd be grateful if anyone can give me advice or point me towards somewhere I can get it.
Thanks!
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 11:22 am
by Stinsy
Self-consumption is nolonger the name of the game.
You want to export as much as possible and get paid 15p/kWh for it. Any power you use should be from the grid at 7p/kWh (both tariffs care of the cephalopod).
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 12:32 pm
by Marcus
I assume the proven was operating as a direct to immersion/storage heater system? If so, then the quickest and simplest way to get it going is to re-instate it with the immersion in the new hot water cylinder, and existing(?) Storage heater(s).
If you want to use the proven with the ashp / car / house loads then yes, it was doable using a grid tie inverter, however: - they used to use a windy boy inverter to grid connect provens, but they stopped making windy boy inverters in 2013, and I'm not aware of a good 'wind turbine gti' to replace them.
What you want is still doable, but it's not simple. Are you planning to have solar and batteries anyway? If so, they can be installed with the permissions to export to grid, etc, and as long as you choose a system with an 'accessible' battery, then it may be easiest to set up direct battery charging from the proven as a way of integrating the proven with an up-to-date grid connected inverter, to power your house ac loads and/or export to the grid.
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 12:38 pm
by Countrypaul
A little more information on your WT would be useful, is that 240V DC or AC, if AC single phase or 3 phase, do you already have an inverter for use with it - if so details please. Do you have an export meter or smart meter that can ued for export (I believe you will need an export meter number mpan either way).
What Stinsy suggests makes sense, but obviously you could reduce the import side of things by using the WT and PV.
One way would be to use a device such as a Victron Multiplus 2 connected to battery stack, this would allow mport and export and use even during a power cut. You could use a charge controller with some PV panels to also chage the batteries (DC to DC). The WT could be connected via an inverter (depends on what you have) to the multiplus to charge batteries/support the house/export. If batteries are fully charged then all excess could be exported regardless of time of day. Charging the EV could be done from the on the cheap rate mains, or when your own batteries are fully charged.
It would be better to export when the high export tariff applies and imort to charge batteries, EV and power the house when the cheap rate applies.
Any such system could be added incrementally. For example:
Step 1: Get an EV charger fitted and onto an EV tariff, get an export mpan.
Step 2: Get a battery and either a hybrid inverter or Multiplus type inverter. (This allows you to import & Export power without generating)
Step 3: integrate you WT and PV. (These can be done seperately but might depend on how they are setup).
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 2:10 pm
by kla456
My ASHP (East side of Scotland) uses 2500 kWh/annum (average over last three years) in a 250 Sq.m passive-renovated house, if that helps you.
And I dont expect the hybrid car will use a lot either.
ASHP heat pumps operate most efficiently circulating at low temperatures (circa 35°C).
I dont know about your house, but I would only install an ASHP if the house envelope had been renovated to passive standard.
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 2:38 pm
by AGT
Pretty sure the Sunsynk hybrid inverter can take wind input as well as PV would be a good combo
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 3:03 pm
by Gareth J
I've a small grid connected WT so experience is based on that.
I take it from the fact your WT is idle that you weren't/aren't set up with a FIT? And therefore don't have an MCS registered installation?
What's your annual expected generation from it?
If the above are the case, this limits any export value. There was talk of octopus letting non MCS installations export via SEG, which should be explored if that's a possibility.
Working on the assumption that export payments won't be available, I think the best option would be to get a WT appropriate inverter and solar diverter.
I have old SMA windy boys and have successfully changed sunny boys to wind suitable via software. This could be a viable option and relatively inexpensive. However, you would need the wind curves appropriate for your machine to operate at its best. There may be wind compatible hybrid inverters that would let you use battery storage alongside, otherwise, a dedicated battery charging inverter will let you use a battery if you think that's good value.
Then a good option is to dump excess generation into heating. As it's a small turbine, it probably doesn't make sense to try to time the heat pump to coincide with high wind times as even at full bore, the heat pump will probably still draw more than the 2.5kW output. In which case, you can use a simple solar diverter and, if you can logically create "room" for heat in a hot water tank, you can help boost hot tap water as the main priority, then space heating either via hot water or storage heaters.
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 3:54 pm
by Heroformosa
Thanks for those replies so far. You're already chipping away at my ignorance, and it all seems do-able! I'll get back to you, Countrypaul re the WT output. Marcus, re using the WT to heat the DHW tank, I'd looked at that but there's not a spare element in the tank, and it would need a heat dump in case of over-heating and I'd rather use it than dump it. There seems to be plenty GTIs on the market, so the absence of the Windy Boy hopefully isn't a show-stopper.
Direct (through an inverter) grid connection was never an option for the Proven 2.2/2.5 kW as they didn't submit it for MCS accreditation (they only did the larger ones). However, if it's used to charge an MCS approved battery then presumably that's OK?
Yes, Gareth J, the ASHP will always want more than the WT can deliver, hence I was (perhaps too simplistically) thinking to supply it with the energy stored in a battery during high tariff periods.
Does a fag-packet calculation show it makes financial sense to install PV panels to charge batteries to export to the grid when power purchase rates are high? if so, how sensitive is it to fluctuating energy prices - ie, is it a no-brainer and you'll always be quids-in, or does it work only under exceptional electricity price levels or differentials between on-peak and off-peak tariffs?
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 7:50 pm
by Gareth J
You can still grid connect the turbine if you want to. MCS is needed to get FiT or a ticket to SEG payments but, iirc, the DNO will be concerned with the inverter and its properties, rather than the turbine.
If you're getting a battery setup whatever, maybe it's easier to charge control the turbine into that. I don't know. But the good thing about getting it grid connected is that you could, potentially, negate the need for a battery storage system altogether. Using proportional diverters and a smart charger for your car, you could really maximise onsite usage without a battery.
Do you know that your turbine is otherwise working? If you're in an ok location, you might expect about 3000-5000kwh per year? Potentially more if very exposed...
Re: A project crying out to be done!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2025 9:59 am
by sharpener
Countrypaul wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 12:38 pm
A little more information on your WT would be useful, is that 240V DC or AC, if AC single phase or 3 phase, do you already have an inverter for use with it - if so details please. Do you have an export meter or smart meter that can ued for export (I believe you will need an export meter number mpan either way).
What Stinsy suggests makes sense, but obviously you could reduce the import side of things by using the WT and PV.
One way would be to use a device such as a Victron Multiplus 2 connected to battery stack, this would allow mport and export and use even during a power cut. You could use a charge controller with some PV panels to also chage the batteries (DC to DC). The WT could be connected via an inverter (depends on what you have) to the multiplus to charge batteries/support the house/export. If batteries are fully charged then all excess could be exported regardless of time of day. Charging the EV could be done from the on the cheap rate mains, or when your own batteries are fully charged.
It would be better to export when the high export tariff applies and imort to charge batteries, EV and power the house when the cheap rate applies.
Any such system could be added incrementally. For example:
Step 1: Get an EV charger fitted and onto an EV tariff, get an export mpan.
Step 2: Get a battery and either a hybrid inverter or Multiplus type inverter. (This allows you to import & Export power without generating)
Step 3: integrate you WT and PV. (These can be done seperately but might depend on how they are setup).
Yes. Using a Victron Multiplus has several benefits. Lots of users including WTs on the offical Victron discussion forum
https://community.victronenergy.com/, you will find plenty of helpful advice there.
Get Multiplus and/or solar panels installed early under MCS, this will enable you to export. Then if the WT is connected on the AC output or 48V DC side of the Multi the DNO will not care about it. E.g. I have the original PV array on the AC-Out and a second PV array going into an MPPT straight to the battery but the Multi can convert this DC to extra AC giving me the full 6.9 kW panel output. Or conversely charge the battery also from the 1st panels if not much sun, or grid at night-time rates.