Storage Heaters, Tariffs & Control

[cycling_mike]

We have heated our house with storage heaters for 30 years and found them to be a good solution for us, but considering how to run with an cheaper EV tariff.

We have "traditionally" wired system, a 5 terminal smart meter that controls the switching of the seperate storage heater fuse board, on Economy 7 tariff 12:30 to 07:30am. Currently I am paying 9.9p Kwh off peak, a good tariff but not the best.

Interestingly I have spotted the Eon Next drive Fixed V4 tariff," to be eligible you must own or lease an electric vehicle or have a solar storage system.. 6.7p per Kwh". I am guessing that the solar storage system is batteries, so a fair bit less than I am currently paying.

If I do move away from the "traditional E7" tariff set up I will need to find a way to switch power to the fuse board powering the storage heaters. Possibilities seem to be:

• Ask the supplier to set a off peak schedule on the smart meters 5th terminal - not confident that this will be supported

• Set up a seperate relay that I can be web driven, this feels a little niche for many electricans or am I doing them a disservice?

What do you guys think, have I missed anything, is this simpler than it feels?

[sharpener]

AFAIK the point of the 5-terminal meter and separate DB was so that it was impossible to run the storage heaters except in the cheap periods.

Unlike the Radio Teleswitch E7 meter I had until recently which supplied the entire establishment. Modern ToU tariffs don't care either what you use the output for.

So if you want to be independent of the Smart Meter capability all you need for the storage heaters is a suitably rated contactor driven from an ordinary timeswitch. Could be web-enabled like a Shelley if you want remote control.

I paid WPD to pull the fuse out while I fitted an isolator, then everything downstream becomes a straghtforward DIY job unless/until you want to involve Building Control.

That Eon deal looks cheap in comparison with Octopus Cosy (though that gives you 8 hrs split into 3 periods) but more expensive that Tomato.

[Stinsy]

We have heated our house with storage heaters for 30 years and found them to be a good solution for us, but considering how to run with an cheaper EV tariff.

We have "traditionally" wired system, a 5 terminal smart meter that controls the switching of the seperate storage heater fuse board, on Economy 7 tariff 12:30 to 07:30am. Currently I am paying 9.9p Kwh off peak, a good tariff but not the best.

Interestingly I have spotted the Eon Next drive Fixed V4 tariff," to be eligible you must own or lease an electric vehicle or have a solar storage system.. 6.7p per Kwh". I am guessing that the solar storage system is batteries, so a fair bit less than I am currently paying.

If I do move away from the "traditional E7" tariff set up I will need to find a way to switch power to the fuse board powering the storage heaters. Possibilities seem to be:

• Ask the supplier to set a off peak schedule on the smart meters 5th terminal - not confident that this will be supported

• Set up a seperate relay that I can be web driven, this feels a little niche for many electricans or am I doing them a disservice?

What do you guys think, have I missed anything, is this simpler than it feels?

The solution is to swap the e7 meters for a single smartmeter connect both CUs to it and install a timer and contactor to control the SHs. Octopus has an EV tariff that is 9p/kWh off peak. Tomato has one that is 5p/kWh off peak.

[Countrypaul]

We have heated our house with storage heaters for 30 years and found them to be a good solution for us, but considering how to run with an cheaper EV tariff.

We have "traditionally" wired system, a 5 terminal smart meter that controls the switching of the seperate storage heater fuse board, on Economy 7 tariff 12:30 to 07:30am. Currently I am paying 9.9p Kwh off peak, a good tariff but not the best.

Interestingly I have spotted the Eon Next drive Fixed V4 tariff," to be eligible you must own or lease an electric vehicle or have a solar storage system.. 6.7p per Kwh". I am guessing that the solar storage system is batteries, so a fair bit less than I am currently paying.

If I do move away from the "traditional E7" tariff set up I will need to find a way to switch power to the fuse board powering the storage heaters. Possibilities seem to be:

• Ask the supplier to set a off peak schedule on the smart meters 5th terminal - not confident that this will be supported

• Set up a seperate relay that I can be web driven, this feels a little niche for many electricans or am I doing them a disservice?

What do you guys think, have I missed anything, is this simpler than it feels?

You will need to ask your energy supplier if they will use the "smart" technology to trigger the switching according to what scheme you are on. You may have to try alternate suppliers if your current one is les than smart.

[Stinsy]

We have heated our house with storage heaters for 30 years and found them to be a good solution for us, but considering how to run with an cheaper EV tariff.

We have "traditionally" wired system, a 5 terminal smart meter that controls the switching of the seperate storage heater fuse board, on Economy 7 tariff 12:30 to 07:30am. Currently I am paying 9.9p Kwh off peak, a good tariff but not the best.

Interestingly I have spotted the Eon Next drive Fixed V4 tariff," to be eligible you must own or lease an electric vehicle or have a solar storage system.. 6.7p per Kwh". I am guessing that the solar storage system is batteries, so a fair bit less than I am currently paying.

If I do move away from the "traditional E7" tariff set up I will need to find a way to switch power to the fuse board powering the storage heaters. Possibilities seem to be:

• Ask the supplier to set a off peak schedule on the smart meters 5th terminal - not confident that this will be supported

• Set up a seperate relay that I can be web driven, this feels a little niche for many electricans or am I doing them a disservice?

What do you guys think, have I missed anything, is this simpler than it feels?

You will need to ask your energy supplier if they will use the "smart" technology to trigger the switching according to what scheme you are on. You may have to try alternate suppliers if your current one is les than smart.

I think the systems are technically in place for this (smart meters have an output that can be used to trigger off-peak devices) but no supplier actually uses it!

Pretty simple to put a timer and contactor in the CU.

Alternatively you can have your SH CU permanently powered and have timed FCUs (such as this one: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMFST24.html) but that is a total faff IMO.

[Countrypaul]

We have heated our house with storage heaters for 30 years and found them to be a good solution for us, but considering how to run with an cheaper EV tariff.

We have "traditionally" wired system, a 5 terminal smart meter that controls the switching of the seperate storage heater fuse board, on Economy 7 tariff 12:30 to 07:30am. Currently I am paying 9.9p Kwh off peak, a good tariff but not the best.

Interestingly I have spotted the Eon Next drive Fixed V4 tariff," to be eligible you must own or lease an electric vehicle or have a solar storage system.. 6.7p per Kwh". I am guessing that the solar storage system is batteries, so a fair bit less than I am currently paying.

If I do move away from the "traditional E7" tariff set up I will need to find a way to switch power to the fuse board powering the storage heaters. Possibilities seem to be:

• Ask the supplier to set a off peak schedule on the smart meters 5th terminal - not confident that this will be supported

• Set up a seperate relay that I can be web driven, this feels a little niche for many electricans or am I doing them a disservice?

What do you guys think, have I missed anything, is this simpler than it feels?

You will need to ask your energy supplier if they will use the "smart" technology to trigger the switching according to what scheme you are on. You may have to try alternate suppliers if your current one is les than smart.

I think the systems are technically in place for this (smart meters have an output that can be used to trigger off-peak devices) but no supplier actually uses it!

Pretty simple to put a timer and contactor in the CU.

Alternatively you can have your SH CU permanently powered and have timed FCUs (such as this one: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMFST24.html) but that is a total faff IMO.

Surely Octopus must already make use of the ability for TOU tariffs as they require a smart meter for the customer to be on them. Whether they could take over the particular meter in question might be an open qestion, and whether the meter would display the correct tariffs is another question. Still does not help to know whether the 5th wire option would be active though, and what if there were 3 periods with different costs, which would be valid for the switch to be set?

[sharpener]

Surely Octopus must already make use of the ability for TOU tariffs as they require a smart meter for the customer to be on them. Whether they could take over the particular meter in question might be an open qestion, and whether the meter would display the correct tariffs is another question. Still does not help to know whether the 5th wire option would be active though, and what if there were 3 periods with different costs, which would be valid for the switch to be set?

Don't think so. I think the apportionment between tariff rates is all done in the back office once they have got the raw data from the meter.

My new Ocotpus SM doesn't display any tariff info at all. Though I believe the technical capability is built in and there are many other things it can do but they do not use, like the 5th wire (and remote disconnection - so far).

[Stinsy]

You will need to ask your energy supplier if they will use the "smart" technology to trigger the switching according to what scheme you are on. You may have to try alternate suppliers if your current one is les than smart.

I think the systems are technically in place for this (smart meters have an output that can be used to trigger off-peak devices) but no supplier actually uses it!

Pretty simple to put a timer and contactor in the CU.

Alternatively you can have your SH CU permanently powered and have timed FCUs (such as this one: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMFST24.html) but that is a total faff IMO.

Surely Octopus must already make use of the ability for TOU tariffs as they require a smart meter for the customer to be on them. Whether they could take over the particular meter in question might be an open qestion, and whether the meter would display the correct tariffs is another question.

I think you're missing the point.

Octopus do use smart meters (obviously). However they don't use the 5-port low-tariff functionality (to my knowledge). This is because the tariffs aren't designed for Storage Heaters. They're designed for EVs.

Therefore you need to sort your own timer. You can't use the 5th terminal even if your meter has one.

[AGT]

The old economy 7 or 10 will be phased out with the teleswitches and associated transmitters being phased out, so up to the energy company to alter wiring to connect to smart meter.

[Sim_C]

I am with Octopus on an E7 tariff, with a SMET2 meter that uses 2 consumption registers and stores the tariff rates for reporting on the IHDisplay.
It is not quite as cheap as the EV specific tariffs but I find it reliable to be able to align my device timers with the 7 hour cheap rate period and can submit manual meter readings in addition to the monthly automatic.

The SMETS2 meter was installed in Dec 2022 and has had these features all this time.

The E7 period for me is 0100-0800 GMT and 0200-0900 BST. The SMETS2 meter uses its network to maintain accurate time unlike the older style E7 electronic meters that drifted from actual time over the years.

Twice a year following the clock change I check the meter by watching the displayed reading as it automatically changes over from 1 register to the other. More convenient at the 0800/0900 change.

Octopus automatically take readings once a month (I requested on the 16th, so billed up to the 15th), and in addition I take and submit manual readings on the 1st of every month. Just a few key presses displayes the 2 register values as Rate01 and Rate02, along with the export total.
The actual resulting bill shows these 2 readings for the begining and end of period with the difference being the consumption.

There is no 5th cable connection on the meter, and no contactor for just E7 devices, so all my devices have to have their timers set to align with the E7 period. That is my GivEnergy battery charging, Zappi to the EV, Eddi to the immsersion and another timer for the UF heating mat.

It is understandable that Intelligent Go does not use 2 registers in the meter as Octopus would have to be updating the meter every day for the varying tariff times, but I would have thought the vanilla Go should be able to use the same method as my E7 for its specific cheap rate period. Whether Octopus do this or rely on the back-end calcs on the 30 minute data I do not know.