Trials and Tribulations of Eco installs.

[AGT]

If specifications for jobs aren’t given to installers you get what they can get away with, nothing extra.

Rough install on all counts, sorry you have to put up with it.

[NoraBatty]

Initially. The ASHP was tripping the electrics every time it tried to run for DHW.
The electrician was alerted and was due to come round at some point to have a look and figure out why.
We waited a few weeks, and then suddenly the board was not getting any power despite the meter lights being on.
It was a Sunday, and at the time, i was grateful that the electrician came round within an hour to fix the issue.
He found the main switch RCCB to be at fault, so replaced it.
The heat pump tripping never returned, and the electric, literally, never tripped again.

Fast forward to June/July this year, and i had an electrician attend to quote for a hybrid inverter install.
He then pointed out, that my Hager consumer unit had an elysian double pole main switch in it, which was not safe.
He also pointed out that the solar, and the ASHP had not been installed to code, namely they had been installed on MCB's and not RCBO's.


He asked if it had always been like that. It just did not register to me at the time that the main switch had been changed over for something wrong. It had definitely changed colour from blue, to red, but i wasn't in the habit of reading the fine print on the board that requires a ladder to reach.
I spoke to the previous owner, also a former electrician. And he sent me a picture of the board before install.


Looking at the electricians paperwork, it seems to suggest he had put both new circuits on RCBOs. In fact what he had done is taken the immersion heater off of its own circuit, and connected it to the sockets.
Then used the existing MCB's to create the new circuits.
The attending electrician said this would have likely caused issues if an underlying fault was there, but because of the RCCB main switch it would have been significantly safer than what i currently had. Which was just MCBs only.

It now made sense as to why the electrics never tripped when there was sparks and buzzing in the lounge light due to the water leak.
He then looked at the general state of the board, and the list of issues grew.







Heat pump cabling in trunking too short, and not clipped, pulling the trunking off of the wall directly over the main escape route for the house.
16mm meter tails should have been upgraded to 25mm for the extra loads.
Large holes, allowing fingers to be shoved inside rotary isolation switches, and the meter enclosures themselves

He then asked to have a look at the solar inverter install in the loft, as he had noticed issues with the solar on first arrival.
It was summer, and we didn't need a light on in the loft for the sunlight beaming through the solar cable entry holes.
Cables not in conduit as they pass through the roof, but 1ft of conduit hanging below that. Unsecured.



He then proceeded to peel back the insulation to look at the inverter wiring (the insulation was packed around the bottom of the inverter)
And he found unsecured DC solar cables long enough to hang yourself on, just coiled up under the insulation.





The kindly electrician, recommended by Joeboy BTW (eternally grateful for that)
Then proceeded to check the solar install just incase they had not screwed the hooks to the joists.
I was then taken outside and shown
The state of the flashings, and that when you look closer to the side of the install, you can see none of the cables are secured, just free to flop around in the wind.
The house had been experiencing dampness issues each time rain hit from the front in moderate winds.
We initially thought this was a ridge tile issue.
It turns out this was where the flashings had been installed so badly that they had started lifting away from the roof, and when the rain hit with winds, the elements were just pouring in the roof.

















The back elevation was not much better. Same awfully installed flashing. This time the DC cables and MC4 connectors were hanging down so far that they were sat in my cast iron guttering.

To top all of this off, this is how the cables exited the property to go to the ASHP.

They come directly across the underfloor hatch impeding access to the floor void, unsupported their entire length

And enter a 500mm thick stone wall with no sheathing to protect them

And just about manage to make it into the conduit outside.



All in all the electrics were dangerous.
Not least because the board is above my front door. Which is directly below the stairs. As i said yesterday.
If an electrical fire broke out on the board, and we were upstairs the stairs would become impossible to use. The upstairs windows would be out only means of escape. Except the internal insulation stopped the windows opening to allow egress.
And even if that did occur, your natural instinct would be to reach for the solidly built cast iron gutter and downpipe, which would have likely been live.

[nowty]

Please tell me that the pile of copper shi1te at the top right of this pic is the crap you cut out and threw in a heap and not part of their install ?


The pile blown up here,

[NoraBatty]

Please tell me that the pile of copper shi1te at the top right of this pic is the crap you cut out and threw in a heap and not part of their install ?

Erm. No. That is the remedial work plumbers mess, from when they ripped everything out up there. Just dumped, awaiting someone else to come and clear it up. Whenever that will be.
I may have a scrounge though the pile. Alot of it is useless but some will be handy for what i plan to do.

[Stinsy]

Really great post. We like detail and pics on here.

Rather backs up what I’ve been saying on here for a long time: the standard of work delivered by many “professionals” is dire. You can normally do a much better job yourself. This is a big problem for those who lack the skills, aptitude, or physical ability to do their own work.

Looks like you’ve done some effective remedial work and the resulting CoP of 4.5(ish) is pretty respectable. Particularly as chasing cheap electric will have hindered this.

Did you consider ripping out and re-installing the pipework from scratch yourself?

[NoraBatty]

Thanks Stinsy.

I did consider it, and was planning to do so, because then you get exactly what you want.
But as soon as i was alerted to the solar and electrical issues, my blood began to boil and i decided they werent getting away with any of it.
So i put in a complaint to the company. They came round the next week to investigate. This was July/august.
I was then told they would rectify their issues, in plenty of time before the heating was due on, so that i could have the underfloor insulation installed before winter.
Each week, it was " just finishing off some of the other jobs we had to do, it will be next week for sure".
This wasnt helped by the company wanting a quote from the electrician who found the issues, and despite him saying he would quote to help me get a safe install, over 2 months a quote never materialised. I cant blame him, it would be in his shoulders as soon as he worked on it.
The carry on continued until about early October, when i finally ran out of patience and demanded it start the next week.
They then sent round a roofer to look at the solar install who told me the flashings were fine and highly unlikely the source of the roof leak, but he would come back the next week and adjust them for me anyway.
I knew this was not right, and at that point i was done.
No idea what i was going to get if i soley relied on the company to put it right to their idea of good.
That day (weds) a lengthy complaint to NICEIC was put in. I was contacted by certsure the next day, who said the complaint looked valid and they would investigate, but they needed to contact the other side. They contacted the company on the Friday.

The plumbers, electricians and roofers all cleared their schedules and arrived at bang on 9am the following Monday to rip out and start again.

Amazing what a voluntary certification scheme can achieve in the face of it.
I just wish that was the end of the issues.

[NoraBatty]

Adding on from yesterdays posts, ive found the pictures that better show the butchered joists




They notched and drilled below every joist in the bedroom for the pipe runs

And how they have run the primary, and secondary pipes between floors, also showing the flex used for the immersion heater.



Other things to note were radiators hindering electrical faceplates



Old oil boiler controls still installed and live



And the solar front array, NE facing, has never worked.
Nowty mentioned that this was likely 3 panels not reaching operating voltage for the inverter, yet the 4 rear panels did. In checking this, he was correct, and this was seconded by the Electrician who alerted me to all of the other issues.
The solar install therefore had not been designed properly.

And that is about it for all the issues with the install.

[NoraBatty]

Now the remedials.
Everyone turned up on the same day. But the electrician couldnt work whilst everyone else was. And the plumbers couldnt do much until the joiner had fixed the joists.

So that came first.

The joists were all sistered, in 2 meter lengths of timber.
12 joists in total.

Some of the notches had not left any meat at the sides for the floorboards to rest on, so the boards were replaced with chipboard across the entire room in one section.

A new base was made for the 200Litre cylinder to rest on. 3x6s sandwiched between 18mm chipboard.


And the window reveals were trimmed back to allow the windows to open. We are still waiting for the plasterer to finish up.


The joiner also made a ply backer for the plumbing bits to be mounted on in the loft. And then it was the turn of the plumbers.

[NoraBatty]

The plumbers ripped everything out, bar the secondary piping to the upstairs radiators.
They left me with one single zone throughout the house, but had to reinstall the buffer and secondary pump for MCS reasons.
Everything was stripped back in the loft, re run in a more sensible fashion, and insulated with thicker insulation and with nicely mitred joints. These still need to be taped up, but it looks miles better.












Under the floor had similar treatment. The installing plumbers had managed to coil an estimated 5metre long 28mm section of pipe round into a spring type formation under the floor.
The remedial plumber had to rachet strap this together in order to stop it dangerously uncoiling in his face when he cut through the pipe.

Once that was dealt with, he then got soaked, because of the way the pipes had been run. There was no way to drain the system fully due to the pipe runs for the downstairs rads being 2ft lower than the system drain cock.
Never the less
He then re ran new plastic pipes under the floor, tidier, clipping them properly under the joists, instead of letting them hang in mid air.
These were then also insulated with thicker insulation, and every join taped.

























Whilst it is in plastic, the difference is staggering.
The system was then ready to be filled with glycol and put back into service.
No 1 day run then flush here Joeboy. It was filled, then glycol added when the pressure didnt drop.
And with that the plumbers were away, with only a few outside insulation jobs the remedials manager was going to finish up "at some point".

[NoraBatty]

Sadly, i thought that was the end of the plumbing issues.
But a week went by and i checked the pressure. It was near zero. I topped it up and looked for any visible leaks or signs of a leak in the house. There were none.

I then had to top it up a few more times and at that point contacted the company and told them there definately was a leak.

Then at 6am one day i was woken up by the radiators draining. So the system was turned off. No signs of water anywhere in the house, meant it had to of occurred under the floor.
I called the company and was told next day someone would be with me.
I waited 4 days with no heating, then was told it would be the following week before someone could get round.
So we investigated under the floor.
There was no sign of water on any of the insulated pipes.
But there was a telltale glycol patch in one area above a collection of tee joins.


My other half opened the insulation just in the area above the glycol patch to expose the joints, and found 7, push fit fittings that were not fully tightened up.













None were particularly showing signs of wet, so whilst my other half stayed under the floor, i went up to open the filling loop.



This joint has either not got an insert, or not got an O ring.
He pushed the entire joint together as hard as he could and got the leak down to a drip.
That was good enpugh for us to get the heating back on, until the plumbers could come and sort the issue.
We have been losing half a bar of pressure every 3-4 days, for a month waiting for the plumbers to return.
I have been very clear that one untightened joint is a mistake.
7 in such a small area is a theme and all of the joints under the floor will have to be checked, and the insulation replaced as it was.
Since then the glycol has started off gassing and can be smelled in the house.
The remedial manager came round today to see if he could fix it. He has a background in plumbing.
He looked at the leaky joint and declared it was "fine with no drips". Then came back out of the floor void and told me the plumbers would be round in the next week to chase the problem and sort it all out again.

So that is the plumbing so far.
Looks much better but still leaking, and still needs remedial work doing to it before it can be signed off.
As discussed, i still have alot of work to do on the system to get it how i want it. But it is working better than before.
Even with the leak.