Storage Heaters

Air source, ground source and associated systems for heating homes
Moxi
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Re: Storage Heaters

#411

Post by Moxi »

I suppose to do that and meet the msc requirements for BUS you just need the surveyor to accept that your personal max temperature requirement is around the 18 degree mark?

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Stinsy
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Re: Storage Heaters

#412

Post by Stinsy »

I'm surprised the official sizing calculation doesn't account for secondary heating...
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Moxi
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Re: Storage Heaters

#413

Post by Moxi »

Stinsy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:00 pm I'm surprised the official sizing calculation doesn't account for secondary heating...
Any secondary heating makes it hard for them to record the carbon savings I guess and it’s less neat for the national audit office to account for multiple heat sources probably?

Moxi
Last edited by Moxi on Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stinsy
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Re: Storage Heaters

#414

Post by Stinsy »

Moxi wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:53 pm
Stinsy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:00 pm I'm surprised the official sizing calculation doesn't account for secondary heating...
Any secondary heating makes it hard for them to record the carbon savings I guess and it’s less neat for the national audit office to account for multiple heat sources I guess.

Moxi
None of those are good reasons to fit an inappropriate HP!
12x 340W JA Solar panels (4.08kWp)
3x 380W JA Solar panels (1.14kWp)
5x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries (12kWh)
LuxPower inverter/charger

(Artist formally known as ******, well it should be obvious enough to those for whom such things are important.)
Moxi
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Re: Storage Heaters

#415

Post by Moxi »

No but since when has Whitehall worried about common sense and the practical?

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Andy
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Re: Storage Heaters

#416

Post by Andy »

Ken wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 10:59 am "
"It seems to me that it is best to fit an undersized HP and rely on secondary heating (log burner, resistive electric, etc.) on the very coldest days."

Thats my philosphy also but the MSE does not allow it so they put in big HPs that will not modulate down enough and change rads and pipes to achieve MSE objectives for a few days a yr.

I struggle to imagine that a small HP (3-5kw) running 24/7 is not enough. That is 72-120 kwh/day! How many people use more than that ?
Come on tell me if you need more than 5kw 24/7.
I _need_ a 12kw heat pump! At the coldest, it was maxed out at 3.68kW continuously. Not everyone lives in Southern England ;P. We had the 5kW stove on as well.
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Fintray
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Re: Storage Heaters

#417

Post by Fintray »

Andy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 6:44 pm
Ken wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 10:59 am "
"It seems to me that it is best to fit an undersized HP and rely on secondary heating (log burner, resistive electric, etc.) on the very coldest days."

Thats my philosphy also but the MSE does not allow it so they put in big HPs that will not modulate down enough and change rads and pipes to achieve MSE objectives for a few days a yr.

I struggle to imagine that a small HP (3-5kw) running 24/7 is not enough. That is 72-120 kwh/day! How many people use more than that ?
Come on tell me if you need more than 5kw 24/7.
I _need_ a 12kw heat pump! At the coldest, it was maxed out at 3.68kW continuously. Not everyone lives in Southern England ;P. We had the 5kW stove on as well.
You must live somewhere in the Artic Circle! :D
Yeah, between the 11th March and the 5th April I had 9 days where I used more than 120kWh/day.
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Stinsy
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Re: Storage Heaters

#418

Post by Stinsy »

Andy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 6:44 pm I _need_ a 12kw heat pump! At the coldest, it was maxed out at 3.68kW continuously. Not everyone lives in Southern England ;P. We had the 5kW stove on as well.
Respectfully, no normal house “needs” a 12kW HP. If the heat loss calcs come back with that answer, upgrade the insulation and redo the calcs!

As above: there is a decades long tradition of oversizing heating systems ingrained in the trades. Even if they do the calcs accurately they fit the next size up or the one above that. Whereas sizing down is a better idea and augmenting with a secondary heat source in unusually cold conditions.
12x 340W JA Solar panels (4.08kWp)
3x 380W JA Solar panels (1.14kWp)
5x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries (12kWh)
LuxPower inverter/charger

(Artist formally known as ******, well it should be obvious enough to those for whom such things are important.)
Andy
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Re: Storage Heaters

#419

Post by Andy »

Stinsy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 8:43 pm
Andy wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 6:44 pm I _need_ a 12kw heat pump! At the coldest, it was maxed out at 3.68kW continuously. Not everyone lives in Southern England ;P. We had the 5kW stove on as well.
Respectfully, no normal house “needs” a 12kW HP. If the heat loss calcs come back with that answer, upgrade the insulation and redo the calcs!

As above: there is a decades long tradition of oversizing heating systems ingrained in the trades. Even if they do the calcs accurately they fit the next size up or the one above that. Whereas sizing down is a better idea and augmenting with a secondary heat source in unusually cold conditions.
It was -14ºC 🥶 :). We do have quite long periods at -6ºC, so the extra power gives us the flex to recover from the hot water tank heating cycles.
AE-NMidlands
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Re: Storage Heaters

#420

Post by AE-NMidlands »

Stinsy wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:07 pm It seems to me that it is best to fit an undersized HP and rely on secondary heating (log burner, resistive electric, etc.) on the very coldest days.
The one thing that leaps out at me is that to use cheap-rate power to charge up a SH you need to anticipate the need a day ahead...
Most people's central heating including mine uses a house thermostat to control the (on/off) output from the boiler, so it's just reactive. The programmable thermostat has significantly different settings for different times of day, but it is still reactive, like (I imagine) lighting a WBS.
And electricity for those of us without an EV is still twice the price of gas. So maybe worth having a HP but hanging onto a gas fire for localised heating in an occupied room at the coldest time of year? (Unless you are planning to remove the gas entirely to avoid the standing charge...)
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