Lobbying for heat only air conditioning to receive public support

[Mart]

Best of luck with fighting the silly rules over A/C units. For a small property, ideally an all electric flat, the move to (or addition of) an A2A unit would reduce their leccy consumption.

But can I add a strange thought argument for A/C units, rather than trying to find a heat only way around the problem:

The problem is that the Gov, and many see A/C as a big negative / problem, as it adds additional leccy load 'just' to provide the luxury of some cooling.

But .... A/C can help many who suffer from the heat. I struggle, but that's just because I'm a little cold blooded, but elderly (and ill) need to avoid sustained heat, which can exhaust and kill.

Add to this, that A/C demand on energy would tie in perfectly with extra, possibly excess PV generation in the UK as we expand RE rollout.

Also, in our case we added the A/C units primarily to benefit from heating, using spare PV generation (Feb to May, and Sept to Nov, obviously not all of those days will have excess PV, or necessarily need heating, but it is a surprisingly broad period of time). So any cooling comes from our PV. So if supported/subsidised A2A could be linked to PV, then the arguments about leccy demand collapse, since the PV will provide far more supply, than the A/C demand. On the cooling days, in our house example, we will be generating a solid 3kW all day (1.5kW early through 4.2kW midday), but A/C load will only be 0.75kW or 1.5kW depending on number of units in use. Total annual A/C use is probably about 2 weeks, in our case.

Hope this helps, not trying to confuse nor complicate the issue, but I think with the application of some simple considerations and policies, A/C is not necessarily a negative, if it (and PV) are net positive.

[Swwils]

"heat only"

A2A is the way forward, no idea why UK so obsessed with wet systems.

Surely the best use of A2A heat pumps is as part of an MVHR system, then you will get a better CoP as you are not heating the air up from a low OAT base.

Big factor in domestic is ease of install.

Your right, in larger installations it's all VRF so room cassettes on warm side of building heat the ones on cold side, without (much) involvement of outdoor plant.

Lots of modern buildings now have IR ducts to sky for free cooling.

[Ken]

Whilst i am an advocate of A2A HP there is one issue rarely discussed and that is that hot air rises and the temp difference can be significant, perhaps 5/6 C between ceiling and leg height. This means that when warming up a room one has to wait for the "warm air to come down".

Now compare that to a system where the heat is largely radiated eg electric element or wood stove. There is a lot to be said for radiant heat heating and electric fires, the heat is almost immediate and direct and one can feel warm when the house is cold. I was in a factory the other day where workers had radiant heaters directed at them and i have been in factories with overhead gas radiant tubes.

Just feel we are missing a trick somewhere.

[Mr Gus]

The easy logical fix strikes you as what ken?
small supplementary ir until comfort of both kits output overlaps?

its a good point raised, though my experience (not huge) is that modern a2a fans the distribution rather than fixed point, though some cheaper models.may well just do fixed fire.

Factory heating with its high roofblowers, lighting etc is a complete clusterfudge, always has been cold as f concrete slabs, & therefore so much cold with little heating effect beyond internal office space.

[AGT]

You get low level air con units that would be fitted the same height as a standard radiator.


https://www.saturnsales.co.uk/Panasonic ... ioner.html

An example

[Mr Gus]

Yes, I forgot, the definition & differences are soon lost as our brains always "think" high mounted interior unit, every time I look at a company like heateasy / cooleasy it is too easy to get lost in the fog of solutions, so much so that a regular height radiator type unit seems alien (anyone else)? & it shouldn't be.

[Stig]

I also fail to understand the argument against A/C. Why is it OK to heat your house to a comfortable temperature in winter but 'unsustainable' to cool your house to a comfortable temperature in summer? Sure, some people may use A/C when it's not really necessary but I suspect a lot of people are already using heating that's not really necessary. The amount cooling is likely to be used, even by a profligate person, are likely negligible compared to the amount of heating thoughout the year.

My house is unusual (for the UK) in that it has gas-fired warm air heating. Replacing that with a wet system would, IMO, be daft (although I bet that's been done by so-called central heating experts that don't know how to do anything else). An air-to-air heat pump would be a perfect fit for my house if I could get a heat exchanger to fit where the existing gas one is -that's not straightforward though, as my neighbour found so she's now got a 'normal' wall mounted air-to-air split unit and has re-jigged the existing fan system somehow.

[spread-tee]

Our ASHP certainly mixes the air in the room and can be directed as needed, we don't find a "pool" of hot air floating around the ceiling.
I very much doubt we will find a politician willing to admit they got it wrong and actively support a subsidy for these machines. Trashing the planet is infinitely preferable to loosing face.

IMHO heatpumps are a dead duck as the regulations are at the moment, almost no-one is interested in undertaking or paying for the upgrading needed to ensure the heating works well. And I don't know any installer (me included) who would risk sticking a system in unless the client is willing to dig deep into their pockets, the five grand subsidy doesn't go all that far when all the works are added up, ten grand might be nearer the mark.

Stick a new gasser in 3 grand all done and you know it works, it's a much safer option for all, except of course the atmosphere!!

Desp

[Mart]

Whilst i am an advocate of A2A HP there is one issue rarely discussed and that is that hot air rises and the temp difference can be significant, perhaps 5/6 C between ceiling and leg height. This means that when warming up a room one has to wait for the "warm air to come down".

Now compare that to a system where the heat is largely radiated eg electric element or wood stove. There is a lot to be said for radiant heat heating and electric fires, the heat is almost immediate and direct and one can feel warm when the house is cold. I was in a factory the other day where workers had radiant heaters directed at them and i have been in factories with overhead gas radiant tubes.

Just feel we are missing a trick somewhere.

Hiya Ken. Yes good point. This can be dealt with by the fan, but will depend on what the room is being used for. For instance Wifey was using our front room as her work from home office since Covid started (though she retired on the 28th of Feb this year). With the radio on, a fan speed of 3 couldn't be noticed, but going to max (speed 6) is intrusive.

Doors make excellent temp controls. If using the room, and you want a quick warm up, say 10 mins, then she'd set it to 21C and close the door. With spare PV, she'd set it to 23C with the door open enough for dogs and cats to get in. And if not in use, then 25C, with the door wide open, to help heat the house / minimse GCH.

The fan also helps to prevent a 'bubble' of hot air around the unit, thus allowing more heat input.

I'm not sure it matters quite as much for cooling as the cool air sinks, and quickly spreads around the downstairs.

[Mr Gus]

Stig,
Is it because in the early days of climate change awareness in modern (80's , 90''s) greenhouse gases, ozone depleting chemicals were cited as refrigerant based, ergo air conditioners = evil? (since fixed to a point, but a lot of chinese law breaking over older hazardous gasses used onthe sly has increased detection rates in recent years with the ozone hole measurement / size perceived)

..maybe this has stuck?