Energy policy - and (some) Tory heads-in-the-sand

[Burble61]

If the volume house builders were forced to do something you can be pretty sure that they would find the most cost effective way (ok, cheapest) to incorporate into their house designs (using that "design" word very loosely i know).

New build is the easy entry point. Every day we don't do it is more "legacy housing stock" that will need a retrofit.

Sometimes regulation is a good thing....(sadly, often it isn't).

[Mart]

And the potential from V2G is staggering, since it's just a by-product of moving to BEV's. A whole UK car fleet of BEV's would have around 1,500GWh of storage potential. One third plugged in at any given time, would be equal to the roughly 500GWh suggested for an all leccy UK future as intraday storage. And the tiny power demand from V2G (or V2H/L) of say 2kW (v's 100-400kW when driving hard) seems to help the batteries, and have no measurable impact on cycle lives.

But V2G kit is expensive, v's your suggested 2kWh storage per house, which is actually a figure I've thought would be more than enough to soak up some excess, and remove the peak part of peak demand completely from 5-7pm (or 4-8pm).

Lots of viable solutions, and technology seems to going in the right direction, offering up new opportunities, faster than anyone can think of problems.

[Burble61]

Back to Rough just for a second - I found this interesting, particularly the bit around geology, as background to why it was closed and more current events.

https://watt-logic.com/2022/08/08/re-op ... s-storage/

Its capacity and output was certainly in the "helpful" category, a few more of similar/larger scale would start to transform things.

[openspaceman]

storage at DNO levels, perhaps co-located with local substations. might even allow for higher PV export if said storage can mop up excess.

Yes I think this would work better in most urban-suburban areas and less scope for damage/vandalism/theft. How many houses does a typical substation supply about 50?

[Mart]

storage at DNO levels, perhaps co-located with local substations. might even allow for higher PV export if said storage can mop up excess.

Yes I think this would work better in most urban-suburban areas and less scope for damage/vandalism/theft. How many houses does a typical substation supply about 50?

Yeah, just pondering out loud, and sticking with OGB's 2kWh per house, which I think is a great number as it allows for 0.5kW per hour through the higher demand evening period, or 1kW for the peak 5-7pm period. So we're only talking a 100kWh battery, that's one of Tesla's Powerpacks (assuming they still make them), and other batts for commercial deployments seem to be in the 50-150kWh size.

If a quarter of the houses have PV, and are all exporting 4kW at the same time (so, let's say large 7kWp arrays, peaking at 5kW (varying orientations), and exporting an average 4kW) then that's 2hrs+ storage at peak, but also discharging to other homes. It may be enough.

Also, would that resolve phase issues, as a way of redistributing as needed.

Add in some domestic batts and V2G and you've solved intraday storage and peak shaving. During less sunny, but more windy times, the storage 9at all levels) is filled from excess wind.

I appreciate that this is only an idea, but OGB's suggestion is something I really believe in. I think there has been some talk about it, but my memory suggests it wasn't in the UK, and I have 2.4kWh batts in mind, perhaps En-phase, and using their 300/500W micro-inverters. But if there was an idea/trial, it was many years ago, and I can't recall it properly.

The reason I get excited about it, is because at scale it would be fairly cheap/standardised, and the DNO issues would be resolved, since they'd be part of the programme, probably running it. I don't think it's a pipedream, I actually think it's something that may be deployed. May even have been trialled.

[openspaceman]

Seems good to me. I don't think there is such a problem with leasing a bit of roofspace as the LA round here seem to have installed PV on private roofs in exchange for the occupants having free electricity when it is generated, couple something like that with substation storage then the DNO gets the reward twice.

Pumped storage is a bit limited by suitable sites and it does sterilise two water bodies but there are other storage options if we ever produce a big excess other than creating hydrogen which I think may be a blind alley efficiency wise.

Both compressed air and liquid air are being trialed, coupled with a combined cycle gas turbine for best effect. After all we will have some fossil fuels with us for a long time so best to get the most bang for tonne of CO2 emitted.