How to balance renewable grids without storage
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billi
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
sorry that is a sickening to not getting to a point, head ache making video , that makes me actually aggressive to punch a face ....
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
You know when you think of something, but you can't work out if it's obvious common sense, or utter nonsense? No, just me then.
Ok, I watched that video, and started to think bigger about how some companies get offered better prices if they are willing to have power supply reduced when it's in short supply. So what if a huge industry had variable demand, or at least one that could demand follow, and I thought of one, but it's such a circular thought, that it may just be stupid ........ but energy storage?
So, we know we will need some type of energy management / time of use management / RE back up storage, all of which overlap, and storage will become a massive industry in itself.
So, by building out larger storage, we also create additional demand (when prices are cheap and supply is high). That industry will demand follow, since it will take less as supply falls, and prices rise, so by its very nature it will demand follow.
Now, I can't work out if this is important, or simply what storage is. I'm only asking, as I think the potential scale of storage needed, would by default encourage a greater supply (more RE rollout), and make that supply more economically viable by creating a price floor. Obviously, in times of low production, it will also lower demand ...... to a point where it actually starts to supply itself.
Been hovering over the submit button for a long time, as I seem to be just pointing out the bleeding obvious, but my brain is nagging at me, that a 'storage industry' does more than just support low generation, it could actually help manage supply and demand, and stabilise prices too ..... maybe?
Be gentle with me.
Ok, I watched that video, and started to think bigger about how some companies get offered better prices if they are willing to have power supply reduced when it's in short supply. So what if a huge industry had variable demand, or at least one that could demand follow, and I thought of one, but it's such a circular thought, that it may just be stupid ........ but energy storage?
So, we know we will need some type of energy management / time of use management / RE back up storage, all of which overlap, and storage will become a massive industry in itself.
So, by building out larger storage, we also create additional demand (when prices are cheap and supply is high). That industry will demand follow, since it will take less as supply falls, and prices rise, so by its very nature it will demand follow.
Now, I can't work out if this is important, or simply what storage is. I'm only asking, as I think the potential scale of storage needed, would by default encourage a greater supply (more RE rollout), and make that supply more economically viable by creating a price floor. Obviously, in times of low production, it will also lower demand ...... to a point where it actually starts to supply itself.
Been hovering over the submit button for a long time, as I seem to be just pointing out the bleeding obvious, but my brain is nagging at me, that a 'storage industry' does more than just support low generation, it could actually help manage supply and demand, and stabilise prices too ..... maybe?
Be gentle with me.
8.7kWp PV [2.12kWp SSW + 4.61kWp ESE PV + 2.0kWp WNW PV]
Two BEV's.
Two small A2A heatpumps.
20kWh Battery storage.
Two BEV's.
Two small A2A heatpumps.
20kWh Battery storage.
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
Yes that's how it eventually works, but you need a really variable grid for it to make sense. t's why telsa's trial works so well in that market.
Storage is really problematic at massive scales that the real world can throw at it - for instance Tokyo sees on average of 2/3 days of "typhoon" a year. How do you store renewable energy for 3 days of a megacity? It's orders of magnitude beyond anything we have managed to do so far.
Storage is really problematic at massive scales that the real world can throw at it - for instance Tokyo sees on average of 2/3 days of "typhoon" a year. How do you store renewable energy for 3 days of a megacity? It's orders of magnitude beyond anything we have managed to do so far.
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
I thought the whole point was coming up with a way of closely following demand by having many devices/loads/appliances that request energy in small chunks so that we did not have to invest in large and expensive storage - we could effectively achieve the same thing with a bit of extra control gear. The whole idea of storage is to "smooth" the effective load on generation, "consuming"/charging when energy is cheap and plentiful and "generating"/discharging when it is scarce and expensive, it is purpose built for that task. This is using what we already have that is doing "useful" work - we need to build nothing new - surely much more sustainable?
I do think it needs a lot of work though. It works OK for a simple resistive heater or battery charger but your average fridge/freezer/heatpump will need a guarantee of more than a 5 minute "packet" of energy so they would have to design in a variable "packet" size and add that into the control system.
I do think it needs a lot of work though. It works OK for a simple resistive heater or battery charger but your average fridge/freezer/heatpump will need a guarantee of more than a 5 minute "packet" of energy so they would have to design in a variable "packet" size and add that into the control system.
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
Of course it has massive "Putin potential" (& any rogue / pee'ed off state / cellar dweller) to p155 on ones packets.
Disconnection & running as the here & now not being part of the plan of control if folks could simply jump off the "scheme" in its entirety.
Disconnection & running as the here & now not being part of the plan of control if folks could simply jump off the "scheme" in its entirety.
1906 ripplewatts @wind Turb-ine-erry
It's the wifes Tesla 3 (she lets me wash it)
Leaf 24
Celotex type insulation stuffed most places
Skip diver to the gentry
Austroflamm WBS
A finger of solar + shed full more
It's the wifes Tesla 3 (she lets me wash it)
Leaf 24
Celotex type insulation stuffed most places
Skip diver to the gentry
Austroflamm WBS
A finger of solar + shed full more
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
This seems to me just high end demand management which i can see could help just like any other demand management eg storage,TOU tariffs, industrial tariffs which allow switching off huge fridges.
Grid size batts are already doing this job and faster. Probably their forte is maintaing frequency and grid security. They also provide extra storage for one off moments.
Electrical frequency switches would do a very similar job
People are not going to accept some one messing around with their supply without their say so and without remuneration. In one off moments most people are just going to flick the setting to "i must have it now" , they will only ever get caught out once.
The max load on the grid needs to be catered for a very short period of time largely by appliances needed immediately and at other times it is rather irrelevant whether my car is charging or not.
So stop things coming on at peak times OK otherwise forget it. We already have the means TOU tariffs.
"you cannot fool all the people all of the time" Why use a simple method when a complex expensive one will do. Cant stop boffins being so.
Grid size batts are already doing this job and faster. Probably their forte is maintaing frequency and grid security. They also provide extra storage for one off moments.
Electrical frequency switches would do a very similar job
People are not going to accept some one messing around with their supply without their say so and without remuneration. In one off moments most people are just going to flick the setting to "i must have it now" , they will only ever get caught out once.
The max load on the grid needs to be catered for a very short period of time largely by appliances needed immediately and at other times it is rather irrelevant whether my car is charging or not.
So stop things coming on at peak times OK otherwise forget it. We already have the means TOU tariffs.
"you cannot fool all the people all of the time" Why use a simple method when a complex expensive one will do. Cant stop boffins being so.
Re: How to balance renewable grids without storage
Wasn't a whole "leg" of the smart meter roll out meant to be that the HAN side of the meter was meant to make the data available to devices in the home.
Essentially then you could buy a smart washers, it picked up the meter data from the home area network and could then know when to turn on either 1. Cheapest or 2. To help the grid.
I think we are currently stalled at having the HAN data available directly from the meter part... (You can get it,.but only once it's been to the supplier first.).
Essentially then you could buy a smart washers, it picked up the meter data from the home area network and could then know when to turn on either 1. Cheapest or 2. To help the grid.
I think we are currently stalled at having the HAN data available directly from the meter part... (You can get it,.but only once it's been to the supplier first.).