More chocolate teapots!

[AE-NMidlands]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-62507301

Greater Manchester turbine plan will supply affordable energy, mayor says

(pic: Wind turbine on O2 ArenaImage source, Alpha 311)
The turbines, which have been installed on London's O2 Arena, would be put all over Greater Manchester

Installing 2,000 small wind turbines will "provide more affordable energy" when people "need it most", Greater Manchester's mayor has said.

The units, which are powered by the air moved by passing vehicles, will be put on buildings and lampposts as part of the region's carbon reduction plan.

Andy Burnham said the project will also "support the creation of 200 new jobs".

The firm behind the turbines said their size meant even small sites could become wind farms.

Oh dear! Perhaps someone should tell him. Strange really, as he usually has his head screwed on the right way round.

[Mr Gus]

The ones on the "publicly paid for & flogged off from beneath our feet" now O2 some are at height, considerable climbing kit required height, ..that's the difference (bet they are still pretty shi-ite though) ..200 jobs!? ..my rectum!

Also, can anyone explain why you need as a homeowner planning permission for a "swindlesave" type unit but clearly not here?

How long do the bearings last, payback time, maintenance etc.I
Who is measuring performance of these?

Doomed to haunt the councils dumb enough, wonder what a similar investment of funds in a proper AT would produce (taxpayer £4£ )

Hope someone gives that department a call & sets them straight.

[marshman]

__

[marshman]

They truly are wonder machines, 10 turbines weighing only 4kg each and 68cm big "could" produce 87,600kWh per year, that's 8,760kWh each. My how the laws of physics have moved on.

I do hope, but very much doubt, that the Manchester mob (and the Telford lot as well) have asked to see the real data from the turbines on the 02 arena before allowing themselves to be conned into this scheme.


"Very recently, Alpha 311 had a big breakthrough as AEG announced that they will be installing 10 of their turbines on the O2 Arena as they try to make their entertainment venues more environmentally sustainable.[4] They are the first to trial this technology globally. The turbines being installed measure 68cm, are made of lightweight recycled plastic and weigh around 4kg.[4] Alpha 311 estimate that these 10 turbines could produce up to around 87,600 kWhs of electricity per year, the equivalent of the power consumption of 23 British homes.[4] The O2 consumes quite a bit more than this, but this is just a trial and what they believe is a step in the right direction. "

[spread-tee]

I wouldn't mind betting that after the Telford trial Andy Burnham will see sense and the project will die a timely death, one can only hope!

Desp

[Mr Gus]

"Could"
Greenwash + con artists = cash

With that degree of morally bankrupt w- s spinning tales faster than their product, (not hard) we will hurtle just that little bit faster to our inevitable doom.

Well done Burnham & co, you may release the reins into the hands of the less gullible now.

MM, come Monday if reminded, I'll call up Burnhams council mob & cite your example & ask for a response in relation to figures & the "if wishes were horses" numbers bandied around.

As we used to throw around, at "st elsewhere " ..if those old spinning garage signs were so good why did they ever stop using them, or book an up with some old school engineering back in the 70's power outs periods as supplementary energy?

[marshman]

MM, come Monday if reminded, I'll call up Burnhams council mob & cite your example & ask for a response in relation to figures & the "if wishes were horses" numbers bandied around.

As we used to throw around, at "st elsewhere " ..if those old spinning garage signs were so good why did they ever stop using them, or book an up with some old school engineering back in the 70's power outs periods as supplementary energy?

A quick "back of fag packet" type calculation by any one in the "real" wind sector would very quickly show that it is physically impossible to get that amount of energy out of that "swept" area, why because it's not there in the first place -- unless you were to strap it to the exhaust outlet of a Rolls Royce Trent aero engine.

I would like to see what alternator they have in their set up and what it is rated at.

Maybe a few F.O.I. requests (I am not a fan of them but in this case....) to the relevant people asking questions like "Have you seen and verified any actual generation data" and/or "have you seen and checked the actual specifications i.e. power curve - output at wind speed "x"" ?

Thinking further 8700kWh per year implies a continuous output of around 1kW 24/7, 365 days of the year.

My best guess for their 4kg, 68cm beast is 87Wh per year.

The more I think about it the more I cannot believe they are being suckered into it.

[Mart]

Fun idea, and I did watch a vid on it about a year ago.
I went into it with great doubt, thanks to all of the critical data from here (and before) about wind generation and VAWTs.
The vid explained the cost benefits of not needing a mast, nor leccy connection, as they piggyback off the light pole. And then the extra generation from passing vehicles.

But, the cost breakdown was very confusing and suggested they were comparable to solar panels. Took me a while to spot the trick, but they seemed to be comparing the income from PV selling the leccy, to the savings from leasing these VAWT's (apparently you can't buy them).

The trick there is that the PV is valued at wholesale, such as selling from a PV farm, whereas the leccy savings, say from a local authority reducing their lighting costs, would be at retail costs.

So I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, since PV can also be installed on the demand side.

Not saying it seemed like a con, but, a lot of smoke and mirrors, I felt.

Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but would have thought it cheaper to simply build a large WT (if possible) or solar install on the demand side.

[Mr Gus]

Investing that cash into a ripple-esque turbine scheme funded by multiple councils is surely a safer return for offsetting council structures with ballooning energy costs such as pools & leisure centres.

Thanks for the explanation of their hyperbbole mart.

[Bugtownboy]

They could follow a local example - ok, the storage is a 100 miles away, but at least there’s (hopefully) useful investment.

https://www.southsomerset.gov.uk/news/2 ... announced/

We also, probably much to Liz Truss’s chagrin, have many solar farms on agricultural land. Whether it’s prime - no idea. Couple of big anaerobic digestion : generation plants within five miles of where we live.