camelot-forum.co.uk

An excellent story! I hope he takes it far.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-63629222

My mother made me go through the Mensa IQ test when I was about 11 or 12 as she was furious that I'd failed my 11 plus, and was sent to the local secondary modern. Don't remember much about it, other than being embarrassed by all the fuss she made at my new school . . .

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:53 pm My mother made me go through the Mensa IQ test when I was about 11 or 12 as she was furious that I'd failed my 11 plus, and was sent to the local secondary modern. Don't remember much about it, other than being embarrassed by all the fuss she made at my new school . . .

My life has taught me not to pigeonhole people and resist typing too. Yet I've always been tickled when I see these bright young things with such enormous potential at the start.

My perspective of IQ testing young children is undoubtedly skewed by my own negative experience, for sure. I'm just not at all convinced that it is helpful to any child's normal development to be singled out as being very different from the others in their cohort at such a young age. My life was hell for the first three years at secondary school, I was bullied unmercifully by others in my class for being different, and because my mother made such a damned fuss. All I remember from that time are the negative consequences, and being highly motivated to make sure I failed all future exams out of spite (something that did change thanks to one absolutely brilliant 4th year teacher).

I sincerely hope that this young lad doesn't suffer the same fate, but fear that there is something wired in to kids that tends to make a few bully anyone they perceive as being different. Some adults often aren't much better, either. My relationship with my mother was permanently changed for the worse from that time onwards, to the extent that we still weren't properly reconciled when she died a few years ago.

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:22 pm My perspective of IQ testing young children is undoubtedly skewed by my own negative experience, for sure. I'm just not at all convinced that it is helpful to any child's normal development to be singled out as being very different from the others in their cohort at such a young age. My life was hell for the first three years at secondary school, I was bullied unmercifully by others in my class for being different, and because my mother made such a damned fuss. All I remember from that time are the negative consequences, and being highly motivated to make sure I failed all future exams out of spite (something that did change thanks to one absolutely brilliant 4th year teacher).

I sincerely hope that this young lad doesn't suffer the same fate, but fear that there is something wired in to kids that tends to make a few bully anyone they perceive as being different. Some adults often aren't much better, either. My relationship with my mother was permanently changed for the worse from that time onwards, to the extent that we still weren't properly reconciled when she died a few years ago.

Not dissimilar story to mysel including the last paragraph, I've always been sharp yet I also passed a reasonable amount of time as a kid battering bullies. One of my schoolfriends who now teaches in Sweden laterally described me as a raconteur nut job. Couldn't see it at the time, I was just being me. Didn't like to see liberties taken though with those who weren't fit for it. Still don't tbh although these days it's a more civilised world and a word tends to work where a fist used to.

That's all long behind me yet was handy as a reachable persona in my early days offshore when working with certain rough types who thought they were it. Got to get the job done how ye can. Sorry to hear you had a hard time at school..

One of the greatest things I learned in my working life was not to exclude anyone. The more grey matter you have working towards a goal in a safe communicating environment where everyone's word is valid and respected,the better. Some day I'll tell you about John the blade from Serbia. He was absolutely outstanding, genius and mad as f**k. Took me about 10 days to get a working handle on him and direct properly, total challenge! A gem of a guy, completely off the charts!

The kid beat me, although I was a kid at the time too.

nowty wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:58 pm The kid beat me, although I was a kid at the time too.

Nowty even then?

Not only that, Mr Nowty!

I often wonder if there should be some sort of testing for kids for IQ and aplitude. Some people are good at learning from books, some from doing, etc.

There are plenty out their whose skills and potential are never realised and I would think society is worse off for it.

I remember doing so sessions with a career advice service in the 90s when flapping around in my then current role a maintenance engineer in a factory.

One of the career paths that came out that I would like and seemed to have aplitude was along marine biology/ engineering lines. Completly random and quite a ways from what I was doing in a factory. Never followed it up, but had a career as a process engineer, manager and now self employed.


I failed the 11 plus, but was lucky to end up going to a comprehensive when they were introduced a year or two into secondary school. I never really had encouragement in education often quite the opposite. Except for an art teacher when I took media studies (got an A) who was disappointed that I didn't follow a career in this.

Oh and I did the mensa test in my 20s after completing a competition in a paper which turned out to be a test which then (after encouragement from my wife) lead to the supervised exam and entry to mensa.

I did go to a few local meetings which were full of people who seemed to think everything should be given to them because they had a high IQ. Put me off mensa for life...

Sorry for the rambling, the point I'm trying to say is that we don't seem to help kids/young people understand and achieve their potential.

In general I believe the only point of a degree education is to get you to the job interview. I've probably used about 1 or 2% of my formal eduction in engineering in my whole career. Specific job training was more useful.

Are we testing someones ability to memorised stuff, or apply it and skills to the problem. In real life we often look up information and apply it.

In the past we've pretty much left it to teachers to try and identify ability, not sure that's worked that well, TBH. The problem with testing children is that it can easily single out some as being different enough to make them a target. I was eventually very fortunate around the time I was 15 to have a form teacher who was curious as to why my academic performance wasn't good. She twigged it was deliberate and spent a lot of time encouraging me.

Biggest problem was that by then I was already "Billy no mates" and hadn't had a single schoolfriend for about 3 years. I think that was the most damaging thing about being seen as the weirdo with the mad mother, no one in my year wanted to speak to me, unless it was a bit of bullying. Kids can be very cruel, often without understanding or meaning to be, and can be good at picking on anyone seen to be different.

People grow at different rates, pigeon holing them at a certain age is utter ball-ox.
Same as broadcasting a mensa success for a kid, it may satisfy the braying of proud parents within their social groups, but will do sod all for the kid at school who has to deal with the stigma associated with it.

I was a bully basher like joe, I had figure skating, horse riding, a distinctly scottish name that attracted plenty of attention, amongst others to contend with as known elements of me used the way kids do, luckily I was also a solid 5ft 2 prop forward in rugby as well as a reputation for leaving the deserving unconcious off the pitch.

I pity that weedy kid.

I hope he has a strong backbone & an uncle who can get him fit & capable of throwing a "close it down" early punch.

You always hope that those who were school bullies develop too, which is where the different stages at different ages thing applies.