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Awful decision to approve this mine in my opinion. Yes the area needs jobs and there have been years of discussions, time enough to set up alternative employment. However questions please.

Does the coal have to be partially “cooked” to create coke!?
Presumably most of the product will be sol internationally since most steel is produced overseas?

On a news bulletin a few days ago, I thought I heard a Stella spokesman say that they wouldn’t need coke by 2030. Are electric furnaces producing in the UK?

Djs63 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:17 am Awful decision to approve this mine in my opinion. Yes the area needs jobs and there have been years of discussions, time enough to set up alternative employment. However questions please.

Does the coal have to be partially “cooked” to create coke!?
Presumably most of the product will be sol internationally since most steel is produced overseas?

On a news bulletin a few days ago, I thought I heard a Stella spokesman say that they wouldn’t need coke by 2030. Are electric furnaces producing in the UK?

I agree, and yes the coal will be heated in an anaerobic atmosphere to drive off the gases, leaving behind fairly pure carbon as coke. This used to be how all our town gas was made, before we discovered North Sea gas, the gas from the coking plants was used to supply gas for homes and lighting, so many big towns and cities has coking plants close by. I remember walking past the one in High Wycombe with my grandmother when I was a small boy. Made an awful smell with the air thick with smoke from the place. That took coal coming in by train and converted it to coke and town gas to run the town and surrounding area.

As an aside, town gas was very toxic, hence all the stories of people putting their head in a gas oven to commit suicide. Natural gas isn't poisonous, so won't kill in the same way.

Town gas contained about 50% carbon monoxide and 50% hydrogen. Hence its toxicity.

Djs63 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:17 am Awful decision to approve this mine in my opinion. Yes the area needs jobs and there have been years of discussions, time enough to set up alternative employment. However questions please.

I agree. How is it that you can rely on this government to always pick the wrong answer?

Does the coal have to be partially “cooked” to create coke!?
Presumably most of the product will be sold internationally since most steel is produced overseas?

Yes, coking (for blast furnaces) bakes it and generates what used to be Town Gas, plus lots of by-products. In fact we are told that the coal will not be used in UK steelwoks because it has too high a sulphur content, and the developers say openly that 83% or something like that will be exported - for burning.

On a news bulletin a few days ago, I thought I heard a Stella spokesman say that they wouldn’t need coke by 2030. Are electric furnaces producing in the UK?

Electric arc furnaces usually recycle steel, for new stuff they can use directly-reduced iron (DRI) if you have a good supply of hydrogen - which we don't. Also I have read that DRI is pyrophoric and difficult to transport so I guess is best used where it is made. Otherwise UK steelmaking could use Scandinavian DRI (they have Iron ore and - used to have - surplus HEP over there.) I think Volvo said they will be using carbon-free steel soon.
2 Guardian articles quoted authoritative sources:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...i ... e-colliery
and https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s ... ws-updates
Of course if they had been developing wind energy in the area over the last decade the unemployment problems would be less severe and we wouldn't need the coal for burning...

On the coal for steel I think you have missed the political angle. The gov knows which ever way it jumps it cannot win. There is hostility on all sides and within sides on the political front. The best thing with a hot potato is to drop it. We are now going to see the battle of all battles in the courts and on the ground.

It is noticeable that the operators of steel smelting plants long ago said they did not need it/want it but that attitude would never “level up” nor allow the cons to keep a labour seat next time round.

There's a great interview with a Government Minister who gets absolutely skewered on this decision.

He bangs on about the highly detailed 419 page report and quotes one paragraph that says it will be carbon neutral in operation and that people should read the report like he has.

The interviewer then goes on to say well that's all well and good but the report also says that that doesn't account for the fact that the coal will be exported to be burned in other countries so it can't possibly be carbon neutral. At which point the Minister u-turns and says well he can't be expected to read the whole 419 pages of the report.

Aah here it is - was actually on Question Time!

dan_b wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:42 am Aah here it is - was actually on Question Time!

Perfect example of how to make a complete c*nt of yourself, I thought after he said the report came out yesterday he would have struggled to read it all in that time, then he goes on to say he tried to read it all on his way here tonight! It would seem that to be you have to be useless at most things before you get a job in government.

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:28 am
the coal will be heated in an anaerobic atmosphere to drive off the gases, leaving behind fairly pure carbon as coke. This used to be how all our town gas was made,

This is the three legs of the economy that grew the railways, raw coal to town gas plants, coke to steelworks and then steel to towns.

We have smelted aluminium from bauxite with electric arcs for eons, but no longer in this country it has gone to places with plentiful hydro electricity, but the carbon from the arcs combines with the oxygen and evolves CO2 I think. An Australian university start up company aims to do the same with iron ore but electrolyse directly and produce oxygen as a byproduct.

As with most things we have walked into this by not addressing the CO2 increase to atmosphere early enough.

Wowza, he claims it's carbon neutral, but that only applies to the operation of the mine, not the burning of the coal.

That's not greenwashing, that's sneaking up behind someone and knocking them out before they see the truth ..... washing.