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According to Electricity maps the price of electricity reached €3000 / MWh earlier this evening which is the highest I can remember seeing it (although I don't always check)

Noticeably this was significantly higher than neighbours like France (around €600) which I'm assuming means Britain is more vulnerable than anyone else under these conditions.

In France they allow Nuclear power stations to operate when they should be shut down for Annual Insurance inspections.

Quote. "A record 26 of its 56 reactors are off-line for maintenance or repairs after the worrisome discovery of cracks and corrosion "

How many online should be SHUTDOWN.

CrofterMannie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:05 pm According to Electricity maps the price of electricity reached €3000 / MWh earlier this evening which is the highest I can remember seeing it (although I don't always check)

And in that very expensive 5-6pm slot tonight I imported 0.002 kWh, and that's with freezing cold weather and an empty EV. So sounds like me taking a £20 four to one punt on an earlier slot has helped the Octopus, or the Government or maybe even the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... att%2Dhour.

The day-ahead price for power for delivery on Monday reached a record £675 a megawatt-hour on the Epex Spot SE exchange. The price for power at 5-6pm, typically around the time of peak power demand each day, passed an all-time high of £2,586 a megawatt-hour.

nowty wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:32 pm [
And in that very expensive 5-6pm slot tonight I imported 0.002 kWh, and that's with freezing cold weather and an empty EV. So sounds like me taking a £20 four to one punt on an earlier slot has helped the Octopus, or the Government or maybe even the country.

Which is just as I said earlier the whole reason for the exercise and the lack of wind today a reason it was predicted and chosen yesterday (or before but I only got told yesterday).

Even if only a small number of us took part, and we are a self selected group not representative of the whole, it must be giving the suppliers, acting jointly, so figures of how much we are able to time shift demand.

CrofterMannie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:05 pm According to Electricity maps the price of electricity reached €3000 / MWh earlier this evening which is the highest I can remember seeing it (although I don't always check)

Noticeably this was significantly higher than neighbours like France (around €600) which I'm assuming means Britain is more vulnerable than anyone else under these conditions.

The Drax website didnt show it as anything like that high- perhaps it was for a very short time.

Tinbum wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:50 pm

CrofterMannie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:05 pm According to Electricity maps the price of electricity reached €3000 / MWh earlier this evening which is the highest I can remember seeing it (although I don't always check)

Noticeably this was significantly higher than neighbours like France (around €600) which I'm assuming means Britain is more vulnerable than anyone else under these conditions.

The Drax website didnt show it as anything like that high- perhaps it was for a very short time.

I suspect it was probably a very short term interconnector price as we were importing at full tilt.

I find the €3000 next day price more interesting because the Octopus Saving Sessions rebate is based on £2250 / MWh (£2.25 / kWh) but Octopus (or other suppliers) get £3000 / MWh payment from the national grid as compensation.

How much of the price differences we see might be due to the way the UK markets work, I wonder?

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, with reference to the way Elon Musk has played around with share prices by playing games on Twitter. People have made and lost large amounts of money off the back of some of his off-the-cuff remarks, which seems to indicate that, at least for Tesla share prices, there is a lot of sensitivitiy to snippets of often baseless gossip.

Can the same happen in the UK and European energy markets, I wonder? I know these markets are somewhat regulated, but it strikes me that with all the uncertainty as to future energy security now might be just the time that those intent on manipulating prices to their advantage might seek ways to do so.

Mind you, I can be a cynical old sod, and worked for a time in an area where there were a fair few amoral individuals out to game things if they saw a way to make a fast buck, so I may well have a somewhat jaded view of the integrity of those controlling the pricing mechanisms for energy.

I'm reminded of the words of an old boss of mine, years ago, though. He was frustrated at not being able to change things quickly, so came up with a policy that to enable change he had to first deliberately engineer a crisis. His words have stuck with me, as he wasn't an original thinker, and I rather think that the policy of using a crisis to engineer change, not always in a positive way, has been an established practice for years.

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:54 pm
Can the same happen in the UK and European energy markets, I wonder? I know these markets are somewhat regulated, but it strikes me that with aall the uncertainty as to future energy security now might be just the time that those intent on manipulating prices to their advantage might seek ways to do so.

As I have eluded to on several occasions I have an energy trading friend.

I did put this very point to them some months back, regarding manipulating prices. Their reply was, absolutely not, its a zero sum game, for every winner there is a loser and in my office some traders have lost money and will receive no bonus for the year and may even lose their job.

nowty wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:31 am

Oldgreybeard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:54 pm
Can the same happen in the UK and European energy markets, I wonder? I know these markets are somewhat regulated, but it strikes me that with aall the uncertainty as to future energy security now might be just the time that those intent on manipulating prices to their advantage might seek ways to do so.

As I have eluded to on several occasions I have an energy trading friend.

I did put this very point to them some months back, regarding manipulating prices. Their reply was, absolutely not, its a zero sum game, for every winner there is a loser and in my office some traders have lost money and will receive no bonus for the year and may even lose their job.

Good to know, thanks, I find myself getting more suspicious of the motives of energy companies and suppliers as I get older!