camelot-forum.co.uk

Worth a read. The EU has seen on average a 20% reduction in gas consumption in Aug-Nov this year vs 2017-2021.
Some pretty graphs too.
Obviously data doesn't include the UK, lol.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/produ ... 20221220-3

Has it been 20% warmer?

Certainly had a warm spell this summer didn't we.

Swwils wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:00 am Has it been 20% warmer?

It might have been, but this is yet another example of innumerate journalism.

says it shows the "Reduction of gas consumption," but shows negative bars, so they are increases! It actually shows Natural gas consumption and does illustrate the decrease.
A

20% doesn't sound that much given they couldn't get the stiff from Russia - and it doesn't help if coal consumption has increased to compensate.

Rather than start a new thread I thought I would post this here as its loosely connected:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/t ... 2e6612f318

It never ceases to surprise me how the big two of Europe (Germany and France) repeatedly succeed in twisting the EU Commissions rules whenever it suits their cause while steadfastly crying that the rules need to apply to every other member country and those outside when it suits them.

Whilst I agree building green is a worthy cause the fact that they were happy to burn FF until the recent ham fisted blackmail attempt by Putin should not allow them to run rough shod over the rues that they previously hid behind.

I was very pro- the EEC but steadfastly against a federated Europe for this very reason.

Moxi

I'm slightly struggling to understand the criticism from the article. Is it just about an inappropriate or unfair level of German state aid?

In the past the EU Commission has blocked most, if not all, large infrastructure projects requiring state aid to make them work - this was done under the fair competition rules and more often than not it was done at the behest of Germany or France as they claimed it would give unfair advantage (usually against their home grown manufacturing or producers) Now though both France and Germany are bending the rules France is state sponsoring Framotome and EDF and Germany now wants to sponsor its massive re-generation portfolio.

Moxi

If you look here you will see that lots of state aid or subsidy is in fact allowed by the EU,

https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu ... verview_en

IIRC in general infrastructure projects are accepted as not skewing competition. All countries are able to make a case for any project they wish and in general provided it doesn't seriously disadvantage another it has been allowed.

Desp

Hi Desp,

Yes thats true for competitively bid work but in the case of the German plans its going to be infrastructure build to a pre determined market constraint and price structure and in the French instance its state aid to a bankrupted business to keep it going - in these two instances the rules did, before the Commission folded, clearly rule against these cases.

Don't get me wrong I don't mind either Country doing what they need to do for their sovereign security - its really understandable, but these are the same countries that stop everyone else doing the same as they are - I'm old skool, whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Moxi