camelot-forum.co.uk

Listening to local radio this morning my ears pricked up when it began featuring the above topic in relation to people who rely on oil for their heating and the lack of government clarity on when and how the payments would be made. With Suffolk being a rural county there are many villages without piped gas so many do rely on oil for heating. Not that it should be encouraged in my book, but I did initially have sympathy for those who have yet to receive this "Alternate" payment. As the piece progressed it then dawned on me, that while they may rely on oil for heating they would already be in receipt of the winter fuel payment via their electricity supplier and presumably under the same terms as the remainder of us. In effect this confusingly named Alternate fuel payment would then be in fact in addition to that already being safely deposited into their utility account.
Maybe I've got it all wrong but it would appear to me that those using the very fuel which is causing the energy crisis are now being rewarded for doing so.
With a climate emergency declared then surely the money would be better spent encouraging them to transition away from oil rather than prolonging it's use!

It's the alternative winter fuel payment, for those that use oil or biomass to heat their homes.
I thought it was gas that was causing the energy crisis?

Hi Fintray, either way it would appear that if you have an electricity account you are automatically eligible for the discount. The only exceptions I could find on the gov website was for those without a domestic electricity meter as per below. If those with alternate fuels are exempt from the scheme then I've been unable to find any reference to it. But I'm more happy to be advised otherwise should this be the case.

The Energy Bills Support Scheme provides a £400 non-repayable discount to eligible households to help with their energy bills over winter 2022 to 2023.

Eligibility. All households with a domestic electricity connection in England, Scotland and Wales are eligible for the discount.

If you live in a park home, houseboat or off the grid
The government has confirmed that further funding will be available to provide equivalent support of £400 for energy bills for the 1% of households who are not eligible for the discount.
This includes households without a domestic electricity meter and a direct relationship with an electricity supplier, for example if you live in a park home, houseboat or you live off the grid.

People seem to forget where all this “free money” comes from!

The issue is/was that Electricity and Gas prices are covered by the government price cap where as the price of oil and other heating fuels is not. So you could argue that everyone with gas or electric heating is getting two handouts - 1. the energy grant/rebate thingy and 2. the price cap holding prices lower than they would otherwise be. Personally I would argue in the case of oil that the price has always been volatile and right now it is less than double what it was four years ago unlike the price of electricity !

marshman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:40 pm The issue is/was that Electricity and Gas prices are covered by the government price cap where as the price of oil and other heating fuels is not. So you could argue that everyone with gas or electric heating is getting two handouts - 1. the energy grant/rebate thingy and 2. the price cap holding prices lower than they would otherwise be. Personally I would argue in the case of oil that the price has always been volatile and right now it is less than double what it was four years ago unlike the price of electricity !

Exactly! Pre-pandemic heating oil had been c. 55p/L for ages. Now it is about 80p/L. Sure it’s gone up a bit, but even with the subsidy gas has gone from 3p/kWh to 10p/kWh.

Adokforme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:32 pm Hi Fintray, either way it would appear that if you have an electricity account you are automatically eligible for the discount. The only exceptions I could find on the gov website was for those without a domestic electricity meter as per below. If those with alternate fuels are exempt from the scheme then I've been unable to find any reference to it. But I'm more happy to be advised otherwise should this be the case.

The Energy Bills Support Scheme provides a £400 non-repayable discount to eligible households to help with their energy bills over winter 2022 to 2023.

Eligibility. All households with a domestic electricity connection in England, Scotland and Wales are eligible for the discount.

If you live in a park home, houseboat or off the grid
The government has confirmed that further funding will be available to provide equivalent support of £400 for energy bills for the 1% of households who are not eligible for the discount.
This includes households without a domestic electricity meter and a direct relationship with an electricity supplier, for example if you live in a park home, houseboat or you live off the grid.

The winter fuel payment is given to all those that are eligible, which is on top of the discounts on electricity and gas that are in place via the price cap, the alternative fuel payment is just trying to give an equivalent rebate to those that use oil or biomass to heat their homes.

marshman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:40 pm The issue is/was that Electricity and Gas prices are covered by the government price cap where as the price of oil and other heating fuels is not. So you could argue that everyone with gas or electric heating is getting two handouts - 1. the energy grant/rebate thingy and 2. the price cap holding prices lower than they would otherwise be. Personally I would argue in the case of oil that the price has always been volatile and right now it is less than double what it was four years ago unlike the price of electricity !

Oil price from 24/04/20: This weekend's rate is £0.1985 ppl.
Oil price from 23/04/22: This weekend's rate is £0.9052 ppl.
I don't remember there being any action to help those using oil for heating when the prices changed so much.

Fintray wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:15 am

marshman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:40 pm The issue is/was that Electricity and Gas prices are covered by the government price cap where as the price of oil and other heating fuels is not. So you could argue that everyone with gas or electric heating is getting two handouts - 1. the energy grant/rebate thingy and 2. the price cap holding prices lower than they would otherwise be. Personally I would argue in the case of oil that the price has always been volatile and right now it is less than double what it was four years ago unlike the price of electricity !

Oil price from 24/04/20: This weekend's rate is £0.1985 ppl.
Oil price from 23/04/22: This weekend's rate is £0.9052 ppl.
I don't remember there being any action to help those using oil for heating when the prices changed so much.

Nice selection of statistics! April 2020 was when they couldn't give oil away, the price of crude actually went negative at that time. Petrol was around £1 per litre. Oil prices had not been that low for years so an unfair comparison in my opinion. Go back a year earlier, April 2019 and heating oil was a lot more!

According to the ONS data the average price for heating oil in April 2019 was 53.409p per litre, April 2022 - 32.018p per litre and April 2022, 96.077p

Back in April 2012 it was 64.435p !!

My point was oil price has always been volatile with wild swings, but it has not increased "overall" by the same factors as the cost of gas and electric. Most people I know with oil watch the prices like a hawk and usually stock up in the summer (August 2022 - 89p per litre) as they know prices go up in the winter.

data here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflatio ... 3/previous

marshman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:52 am

Fintray wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:15 am

marshman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:40 pm The issue is/was that Electricity and Gas prices are covered by the government price cap where as the price of oil and other heating fuels is not. So you could argue that everyone with gas or electric heating is getting two handouts - 1. the energy grant/rebate thingy and 2. the price cap holding prices lower than they would otherwise be. Personally I would argue in the case of oil that the price has always been volatile and right now it is less than double what it was four years ago unlike the price of electricity !

Oil price from 24/04/20: This weekend's rate is £0.1985 ppl.
Oil price from 23/04/22: This weekend's rate is £0.9052 ppl.
I don't remember there being any action to help those using oil for heating when the prices changed so much.

Nice selection of statistics! April 2020 was when they couldn't give oil away, the price of crude actually went negative at that time. Petrol was around £1 per litre. Oil prices had not been that low for years so an unfair comparison in my opinion. Go back a year earlier, April 2019 and heating oil was a lot more!

According to the ONS data the average price for heating oil in April 2019 was 53.409p per litre, April 2022 - 32.018p per litre and April 2022, 96.077p

Back in April 2012 it was 64.435p !!

My point was oil price has always been volatile with wild swings, but it has not increased "overall" by the same factors as the cost of gas and electric. Most people I know with oil watch the prices like a hawk and usually stock up in the summer (August 2022 - 89p per litre) as they know prices go up in the winter.

data here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflatio ... 3/previous

You've got to choose your statistics carefully!
I pretty sure that most of those using oil would have much preferred a steady price say 35p/l rather than the big swings. I remember at one point getting oil for 9p/l (ages ago) then most (painfully) recently at 94p/l