Page 1 of 2
Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:01 pm
by Mr Gus
As per the Grundian
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... 0-uk-bills
Blending likely to add "about" £192 per year to a gas bill
"“This puts the early costs of building the hydrogen economy on the shoulders of consumers, who will bear the costs of higher energy bills and costs of conversion – on top of the proposed ‘hydrogen levy’ set out in the energy bill. As hydrogen is more expensive than the gas currently used to heat most UK homes, a 20% blend can only raise consumer prices. Raising energy bills during a cost of living crisis is the wrong way to develop industrial demand for hydrogen.”
Bills for all energy users to fund the gas users only infrastructure or just borne by gas users??
The government is expected to decide this year whether to press ahead with plans for the blending of hydrogen into the UK’s natural gas networks, which could happen as soon as 2025. Ministers are also considering a hydrogen levy on bills to fund its development.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:18 pm
by nowty
Info on the legislation here,
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ess-models
Why are you supporting CCUS-enabled/blue hydrogen that uses fossil fuels?
There are a variety of methods for producing low carbon hydrogen. The UK Hydrogen Strategy sets out the government’s ‘twin-track’ approach to supporting both electrolytic ‘green’ and CCUS-enabled ‘blue’ hydrogen production. We have doubled our UK ambition for hydrogen production to up to 10GW by 2030 with at least half of this coming from electrolytic hydrogen.
Why do we need a levy and what will be the impact on consumer bills?
The purpose of the levy is to provide long-term funding for the hydrogen business model, which will enable hydrogen producers to overcome the operating cost gap between low carbon hydrogen and fossil fuels.
The levy is not expected to be implemented until 2025 (subject to legislation being in place) and so we do not expect it to have impacts on consumer bills before then. Once introduced, we expect its impacts will ramp up as we look to deliver our 2030 hydrogen ambitions to improve energy security. As policy development on the levy is ongoing, with a number of key decisions still pending, there is uncertainty regarding the precise impact of the levy on consumer bills.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:36 pm
by marshman
Mr Gus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:01 pm
Bills for all energy users to fund the gas users only infrastructure or just borne by gas users??
By "all energy users" I am assuming you mean gas and electricity users. Don't see a problem with both paying, gas is and will be still used to generate a significant proportion of the electricity we - well most people - consume. Energy in all its forms has been too cheap for years which is why very few people "value" it and waste so much.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:52 pm
by Mr Gus
Technically people are already getting a better deal from gas hook ups compared to many on electricity per unit as proclaimed here.
"Too cheap" is when you waste it, IF you waste it.
Not having access to marginally cheaper gas I'd prefer not to be further crippled for something i'm not typically using, & certainly not using at home (no gas to our property within the street) ..something that would cost thousands of pounds to dig up the street & hook up.
After all this is for "residential" from which we are excluded, another tax hammering what percentage of the non gas hooked up populace therefore?
& hydrogen mix doesn't stop it being nasty crap, it helps it stay here in use, feeding the effed up fossil fuel industry further, so i'm not keen to assist that.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:24 pm
by nowty
The government response to the consultation is here,
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sponse.pdf
Section 9: Funding the hydrogen business model
Question 19 - What are your views on the possible approaches to funding the
proposed hydrogen business model?
Government response
The options identified by stakeholders in response to the consultation largely align with those
that we have considered: a levy, general taxation, and carbon pricing. As set out in the Net
Zero Strategy, we have set up the IDHRS scheme to fund our new hydrogen and ICC business
models and give long-term certainty to investors and projects. This will be essential to helping
us meet our hydrogen and CCUS ambitions. The Net Zero Strategy announced up to £100m of
funding to award contracts of up to 250MW of electrolytic hydrogen production capacity in
2023. We will announce a further funding envelope in 2022 that will enable us to award the first
contracts to CCUS-enabled hydrogen and industrial carbon capture facilities from 2023
through the Cluster Sequencing process. Our intention is for all revenue support for hydrogen
production to be levy funded from 2025 at the latest, subject to consultation and legislation
being in place.
We anticipate that a levy to fund the hydrogen business model will require new primary powers
and we intend to legislate when Parliamentary time allows.
We are currently assessing options for the detailed levy design. This will reflect wider
government priorities and policies to ensure affordability of consumer energy bills, that costs
are distributed fairly, and that UK businesses remain competitive.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:27 pm
by marshman
I too live off the gas grid & am "all electric".
The "energy is too cheap" comment was aimed at the general populous and they way the treat / waste it. It is only since prices have spiked that there is even a stirring of thoughts to using it more wisely and even then most just want their consumption subsidised by plucking fruit from the non-existent magic money tree.
Pretty much preaching to the converted on this forum, though I do cringe when I see the import figures for some, even allowing for an electric car or two.
As regards perpetuating the FF industry, we are deluding ourselves if we think we are going to do away with gas for domestic heating in the forseeable future. So a 20% blend "may" help reduce emissions - usual caveats apply. Personally I think they are wasting their time and should concentrate on better insulation and more efficient use of energy, that would do way more good and save people money on their bills, I've been doing it for years, but what do I know
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:05 pm
by Mr Gus
Knowing can indeed be infuriating
..I agree MM.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:27 pm
by Krill
So here's a question: are all the gas boilers in use tested for use with such a fuel mix? I imagine the issues around combustion aren't that different but I wonder on the effect of warranties on preciously installed gas boilers.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:37 pm
by Mr Gus
"ah but we've invested billions so we want another 70+ years with it to get our money back" (sod yours taxpayer you are merely a means to an end) waiting for that leaked memo of govt facilitation to float to the top.
Re: Hydrogen blending costs
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:28 am
by Yuff
marshman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:27 pm
I too live off the gas grid & am "all electric", hence the considerable investment in heatpump, solar and batteries.
The "energy is too cheap" comment was aimed at the general populous and they way the treat / waste it. It is only since prices have spiked that there is even a stirring of thoughts to using it more wisely and even then most just want their consumption subsidised by plucking fruit from the non-existent magic money tree.
Pretty much preaching to the converted on this forum, though I do cringe when I see the import figures for some, even allowing for an electric car or two.
As regards perpetuating the FF industry, we are deluding ourselves if we think we are going to do away with gas for domestic heating in the forseeable future. So a 20% blend "may" help reduce emissions - usual caveats apply. Personally I think they are wasting their time and should concentrate on better insulation and more efficient use of energy, that would do way more good and save people money on their bills, I've been doing it for years, but what do I know
Matshsman
Some of us have a SWMBO who like to be toasty in the middle of winter. What can I do when she says, with the room at 23.9°c, that it’s a bit chilly.
It takes a lot of effort and energy to get the rooms that warm.
I have the personality that likes to use as little energy as possible with as much efficiency and also get as much efficiency in the EV, more to do with me saving money I think than saving the planet although that’s a great by product of my being so anal
However I will do anything to avoid paying the rip off 39p peak electric price even if it costs me thousands in more batteries and PV
..I agree MM.