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Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:37 am
by Joeboy
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:36 am
by Stinsy
Waste of time for lots of reasons:
1) There isn’t enough area on the body of a car to generate enough electric to be of any use. There is maybe enough for 1-2kWp but very little of that will be perfectly aligned to the sun at any one time.
2) Cars aren’t perfectly aligned to catch the sun for the few brief hours it shines every day. They are parked in parking garages, or in the shade of trees/buildings most of the time.
3) The solar adds cost, complexity, and cost to the BEV for little-to-no benefit.
Better to put the solar on your house…
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:47 am
by Joeboy
Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:36 am
Waste of time for lots of reasons:
1) There isn’t enough area on the body of a car to generate enough electric to be of any use. There is maybe enough for 1-2kWp but very little of that will be perfectly aligned to the sun at any one time.
2) Cars aren’t perfectly aligned to catch the sun for the few brief hours it shines every day. They are parked in parking garages, or in the shade of trees/buildings most of the time.
3) The solar adds cost, complexity, and cost to the BEV for little-to-no benefit.
Better to put the solar on your house…
Harsh!
I'll forward the message to the lads in the lab.
Roof, bonnet, 12 to 14 hrs sun per day. The scenarios are not as limited as made out.
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:50 am
by Stinsy
This topic is one that gets me very annoyed. The principles have been established for ages, yet time/effort and investment money is spanked over and over to prove it again and again…
It seems that 90% of the population are entirely unable to quantify power.
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:53 am
by Joeboy
Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:50 am
This topic is one that gets me very annoyed.
I see that.
Nobody is looking for perfect alignment or a perfect scenario. Cell efficiency is on the up all the time, I applaud them for trying. Although tbh it doesn't move me one way or other. Edit- unintended pun
.
Absolutely see your point on power gained on installed PV then chucked at EV.
Tangential thought, why do electric trains not have PV to run the secondary circuits?
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:55 am
by AE-NMidlands
Joeboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:53 am
Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:50 am
This topic is one that gets me very annoyed.
I see that.
Nobody is looking for perfect alignment or a perfect scenario. Cell efficiency is on the up all the time, I applaud them for trying. Although tbh it doesn't move me one way or other. Edit- unintended pun
.
Absolutely see your point on power gained on installed PV then chucked at EV.
Tangential thought, why do electric trains not have PV to run the secondary circuits?
because it is another unnecessary complication and expense, and (given the weight (strength) of a train compared to a car) would be absolutely trivial compared to the Megawatts needed for traction. Also train roofs aren't cleaned so it would quickly get coated with the carbon / copper oxide layer which comes off the wires whenever they are wet.
p.s. also the weight of the equipment would need accelerating after every stop, although some of that could be reclaimed by regenerative braking, and not many household or industrial panel mountings have to cope with 100mph winds or the physical battering that railway rolling stock gets. When you get inside them you immediately realise that
everything on a train is far bigger and heavier than comparable things you would see in normal life, which is why trains from new-entrant manufacturers normally just fall apart - and trains from experienced designers cost at least half as much again as any initial costings made by "consultants."
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:48 am
by Joeboy
AE-NMidlands wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:55 am
Joeboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:53 am
Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:50 am
This topic is one that gets me very annoyed.
I see that.
Nobody is looking for perfect alignment or a perfect scenario. Cell efficiency is on the up all the time, I applaud them for trying. Although tbh it doesn't move me one way or other. Edit- unintended pun
.
Absolutely see your point on power gained on installed PV then chucked at EV.
Tangential thought, why do electric trains not have PV to run the secondary circuits?
because it is another unnecessary complication and expense, and (given the weight (strength) of a train compared to a car) would be absolutely trivial compared to the Megawatts needed for traction. Also train roofs aren't cleaned so it would quickly get coated with the carbon / copper oxide layer which comes off the wires whenever they are wet.
p.s. also the weight of the equipment would need accelerating after every stop, although some of that could be reclaimed by regenerative braking, and not many household or industrial panel mountings have to cope with 100mph winds or the physical battering that railway rolling stock gets. When you get inside them you immediately realise that
everything on a train is far bigger and heavier than comparable things you would see in normal life, which is why trains from new-entrant manufacturers normally just fall apart - and trains from experienced designers cost at least half as much again as any initial costings made by "consultants."
Cheers! Brilliant explanation
I was fortunate in that I was on the old rolling stock pre electrification on the West Coast lines. Brilliant private compartments on that stock. Used to go down to Ayr, so passed unknowingly the future Kirkhill site at 16, 6am every morning. Also.down to Wemyss bay, doubled up as a train station.and ferry terminal. Just excellent times.
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:11 am
by richbee
Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:50 am
This topic is one that gets me very annoyed. The principles have been established for ages, yet time/effort and investment money is spanked over and over to prove it again and again…
It seems that 90% of the population are entirely unable to quantify power.
I guess there will be a cost/benefit decision on a case-by-case basis. Solar works amazing well on a campervan to keep a leisure battery topped up and run fridge, lights, USB charging etc - but you need much more to make a significant difference to a drive battery in terms of miles gained.
I still like the idea of an electric campervan in the future with the roof & maybe awning covered in PV and topping up the main batteries to gain 50 miles a day or similar while you are away, but may be a while before that becomes realistic / cost effective
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:02 pm
by Mart
Joeboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:47 am
Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:36 am
Waste of time for lots of reasons:
1) There isn’t enough area on the body of a car to generate enough electric to be of any use. There is maybe enough for 1-2kWp but very little of that will be perfectly aligned to the sun at any one time.
2) Cars aren’t perfectly aligned to catch the sun for the few brief hours it shines every day. They are parked in parking garages, or in the shade of trees/buildings most of the time.
3) The solar adds cost, complexity, and cost to the BEV for little-to-no benefit.
Better to put the solar on your house…
Harsh!
I'll forward the message to the lads in the lab.
Roof, bonnet, 12 to 14 hrs sun per day. The scenarios are not as limited as made out.
Hiya. Lots of potential, but really needs to be incorporated as part of the build process so as to reduce any duplication of costs.
Sono Motors have done a lot of work on it, which is either evidence of success, or failure, depending on how you look at it. They had their working Sion BEV with all panels being PV, but they didn't take the final step to production/sales, due to lack of capital ...... so failure(?) ...... but also so the could focus on demand they were getting for suppling add on kits, or larger vehicle electrification ...... so success(?)
Worth checking out their site:
Sono - The Future is Solar
Here's a link to the Sion on EV-Database, with the specs, but as I said it didn't go into production, as planned at the start of this year.
Sion BEV from Sono Motors
Re: Body panel integrated solar cells
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:55 pm
by Stinsy
Joeboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:48 am
Cheers! Brilliant explanation
I was fortunate in that I was on the old rolling stock pre electrification on the West Coast lines. Brilliant private compartments on that stock. Used to go down to Ayr, so passed unknowingly the future Kirkhill site at 16, 6am every morning. Also.down to Wemyss bay, doubled up as a train station.and ferry terminal. Just excellent times.
I recently rode on an old class 90 that had unexpectedly been chartered to replace the service i'd booked. I'm sorry to say it made me very sad. The old train was fast, elegant, comfortable, and quiet. It compared very favourably with the horrible modern rolling stock. We live in sad times...
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