camelot-forum.co.uk

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/h ... 995d&ei=57

For those considering a HP at present, not sure if its good bad or indifferent.

Moxi

Something to consider.

I fitted a ground source heat pump 20 years ago.
Massive digging project to install outside pipe work.
It has had very little use.

It only produces 55 Deg. C.

Oil boiler gets to 80 Deg. C

When it starts the grid voltage drops every time the motor starts. The Solar / Wind grid inverters shut down and spend time re booting. Energy being wasted.

Yes you can fit massive radiators in each room. ( each one six times the size of a big Telley. )

Modern units are more likely to have inverter drives for soft start and modulation of the output, so much less likely to have that effect on the local grid voltage.

If I got a HP it would be for DHW, we hardly use the CH and prefer the WBS for heating purposes, what gets me is theres very little information on manufacturers web sites for the DHW side of things and they all seem hooked on telling you how good the system is at heating.

Ideally I need something a bit like Nowty Power stations system where the heat pump and HWC are outside in a lean to shed structure with just a 22mm dia hot out and cold return in to the house to feed the sink taps, shower and bath.

I dont mind the radiators being attached to the HWC as well as that always allows me the choice to use the immersion to bring the whole tank up to a higher temperature using my ripple / other cheap power when its available so another source of heat if and when I need it which isnt often.

On that basis would any ASHP with a HWC for use with ASHP give me the DHW needed?

Also for the optimisation of the ASHP am I right in thinking a 300L HWC is better than smaller options so that the ASHP can operate low and slow ??

Moxi

Moxi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:18 am If I got a HP it would be for DHW, we hardly use the CH and prefer the WBS for heating purposes, what gets me is theres very little information on manufacturers web sites for the DHW side of things and they all seem hooked on telling you how good the system is at heating.

Have you looked at the hybrid heat pump hot water tank, all in one jobby's? There's quite a few around now.

Hi Albargey,

Yes I’ve looked but they are all relatively small tanks and not suitable for long shower ( three kids) plug in shower bath hybrid ???? and no where near big enough for the bath which is larger than standard as SWMBO is willowy (lankey) and likes to be able to submerge to rinse her hair.

I thought those units were offered as integral balance tanks to allow the ASHP to run more efficiently with non standard plumbing but happy to be wrong

Moxi

Moxi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:36 pm Hi Albargey,

Yes I’ve looked but they are all relatively small tanks and not suitable for long shower ( three kids) plug in shower bath hybrid ???? and no where near big enough for the bath which is larger than standard as SWMBO is willowy (lankey) and likes to be able to submerge to rinse her hair.

I thought those units were offered as integral balance tanks to allow the ASHP to run more efficiently with non standard plumbing but happy to be wrong

Moxi

You need more than 250l of hot water a day!?

I have no idea if they are any good but something like this?

https://www.ochsner.com/en/ochsner-prod ... 33-genius/

Or this?

https://www.ariston.com/en-uk/products/ ... us-wifi-uk

or this?

https://coolenergyshop.com/products/coo ... ter-system

Morning Al,

We have 3 children, 6, 4 and 2, so there are showers and baths most if not every day, the bath as noted earlier is a larger size and holds around 365litres, these days my wife doesn't have many baths (theres no time!) but we shower daily as do the kids, sometimes twice for the kids depending on circumstances

Typically showers use a lot of water - plug in the bath shows that water level will be a a quarter to a third full for parents and normally half full for the kids (thats three kids all showered together) its less than a 8th when single kid is "emergency" washed.

Shower is direct feed thermostatic from mains pressure lpg boiler which is a Worcester bosh 28kW condensing boiler- no hot water cylinder, 22mm dia copper pipe work feeds the bath and shower.

To give you an idea of the flow we have the boiler cannot heat the water fast enough to fill the bath with water above 18degrees C if the tap is opened fully, so we have to throttle the flow by around half to a third to get water at "hot" bath temps.

So while we don't bath often I need to ensure in future that the system can fill the bath adequately so that when the day comes that my wife can have a relaxing bath again - that its available through the ASHP system. As the mother of three very active boys thats the least I can do for her.

Thats where the 300ltr direct unvented hot water cylinder requirement came from which I think also benefits the heat pump which like to run low temperature but for long cycles?

Then add in to that the fact that the cottage is small by modern standards and the HWC would need to be outside in a lean to next to the ASHP through necessity.

I have looked at the Areston Nuos and similar systems before but I believe the system relies on the warm air drawn from the interior of a building to compliment a smaller ASHP to get the temperatures required - this could still be done with some 5" vents cored through the cottage walls noting that the wall in that section is slate and a solid 3ft 6" thick plus another 6" EWI. These systems with clever adaptation of the vent lines and valves can direct cold air outside in winter and inside in summer to provide cooling, I have no feel for how these units compare with the split systems in terms of reheat times. They also look simple to plumb in from my limited plumbing experience and so a local plumber would be able to do all the pipework to and from.

The only detraction I see is that they would cause a pressure drop in the house and therefore a potential increase in draughts around feet from air ingress leakage paths.

The split systems come in larger sizes (if reheat is an issue) don't induce draughts in the house but also don't offer cooling in summer - is that a real problem - doe we get enough hot summers in North West Wales to worry about this ?

Thats about the sum of my thinking so far other than we are West facing with a southern Gable end for the system to be mounted, air temperatures range from 5 to 18 degrees average with peaks in the low 20's and in winter we get perhaps 5 days of zero or sub zero temperatures.

minus three last night for instance.

Moxi

Moxi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:52 am Morning Al,

We have 3 children, 6, 4 and 2, so there are showers and baths most if not every day, the bath as noted earlier is a larger size and holds around 365litres, these days my wife doesn't have many baths (theres no time!) but we shower daily as do the kids, sometimes twice for the kids depending on circumstances

Typically showers use a lot of water - plug in the bath shows that water level will be a a quarter to a third full for parents and normally half full for the kids (thats three kids all showered together) its less than a 8th when single kid is "emergency" washed.


Moxi

Have you looked a low flow shower head ? (smaller holes -you won't notice) thas a lot of water
On another note why do (women) shower at full pressure ?? i never turn the shower full on.........
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/electri ... lCM9Y5kuG5

George

You get screw in reducers so no need to replace head

I installed them at work years ago, the showers used 40+ litres a minute, got them down to 13 litres. Early 90’s install