Will heat pumps cause blackouts?

[AE-NMidlands]

following on from https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... 640#p47640 *National Grid's Future Energy Scenarios 2024) the Guardian has https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -blackouts

The pathway to meeting the world’s climate targets is electric: fossil fuel boilers and vehicles will make way for electric alternatives, and heavy industry is preparing to swap gas for low-carbon power.

This will present an unprecedented challenge for electricity grids across developed economies, which were originally built to transmit power generated by a few large power stations to homes and businesses that had lower overall demand.
Heat pumps are expected to have a major impact on how electricity grids run. A spell of cold weather could cause a collective surge in power demand from millions of households.

But are these challenges too great for grid operators, and can households expect power blackouts in exchange for a greener energy system?
The claim:

Critics fear that heat pumps could lead to a surge in demand for electricityparticularly during winter cold snaps – that could outstrip the UK’s electricity supplies or overwhelm local power grids to cause blackouts.
These fears have been stoked by organisations including the Stove Industry Association, which represents companies in the wood-burning stove industry. Erica Malkin, the group’s spokesperson, told the Daily Express there were “concerns about the expansion of the energy network” and the “very real potential for power outages”.
etc

so the Daily Express is publicising fears raised by vested interests! I didn't see any mention of vehicle-to-grid, which I would have thought could be the quickest way to get big grid-connected batteries rolled out (groan!) widely.

[Saladin]

Short answer no because they're more efficient than the resistive heaters and fossil burners they're replacing.
The actual demand on the grid hasn't incresed for almost two decades thanks to more efficient loads and micro-generators.

Does air conditioning accelerate global warming...Yes! It's a heat pump and it makes more heat than it displaces.
Natural gas is a weapon too. Approx 10% of the global production is leaking. What? Yes! "Natural" is a marketing word for methane.

If we backed currency with energy instead of a FIAT debt based economy we'd solve the energy "crisis" inside a year.

[NoraBatty]

why is it these people only ever think in, and peddle extremes.
Infrastructure should be continuously evolving and improving. Its just a given.
The fact previous governments have decided not to reinvest our taxes back into the society, in the manner which is required (instead lining their own pockets) should not take away from that fact.
It ignores that heatpumps run something silly, like 95% of the time on tick over, and not actively heating. It ignores the fact that no set up is identical.
There will always be something that offsets useage to something else.
With the amount of electric and storage heaters kicking around in houses as the only heat source, it doesnt take a genuis to realise heat pumps would help the situation significantly.

I do really question why this country, and all others continue to allow news agencies to peddle such blatant propaganda. Anything not veing reported as actual news, i.e. facts with no spin added, should be forced to openly display that it is not fact. That it is an opinion piece, written by x,y,z with vested intrests of a,b,c.

[dan_b]

Who was it who once said that Politicians should be dressed like Motor Racing Drivers - with the logos of their sponsors displayed prominently at all times - the same it would seem needs to apply to many channels in the Media...

[Fintray]

I do really question why this country, and all others continue to allow news agencies to peddle such blatant propaganda. Anything not veing reported as actual news, i.e. facts with no spin added, should be forced to openly display that it is not fact. That it is an opinion piece, written by x,y,z with vested intrests of a,b,c.

[spread-tee]

I do really question why this country, and all others continue to allow news agencies to peddle such blatant propaganda. Anything not veing reported as actual news, i.e. facts with no spin added, should be forced to openly display that it is not fact. That it is an opinion piece, written by x,y,z with vested intrests of a,b,c.

Brown envelopes basically, the power of lobbyists and party donations is huge, not always a bad thing but does need transparency as you say.

[Moxi]

I do really question why this country, and all others continue to allow news agencies to peddle such blatant propaganda. Anything not veing reported as actual news, i.e. facts with no spin added, should be forced to openly display that it is not fact. That it is an opinion piece, written by x,y,z with vested intrests of a,b,c.

Brown envelopes basically, the power of lobbyists and party donations is huge, not always a bad thing but does need transparency as you say.

They need to be placed under performance related financial incentives, if they are found wanting for any reason down the line deduct a portion of their pension etc. They need structure, parameters and penalties just like everyone else -otherwise absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Moxi

[Ken]

The article goes on and concludes with the last sentence " but there is no reason to believe that the UK will experience more blackouts in the future as a result of heat pumps if careful modelling and upgrades continue.

The ESO model every possible scenario from one extreme to the other so why anybody should think they know better is beyond me.

There is no problem because nobody has ever said the gas power stations must cease production. The country aim is NET zero CO2. YES NET NET NET how many times.

The “net” means that it will continue to import and export and have some gas capacity to fill in any gaps, but the amount of power generated by its wind and solar farms will be equivalent to demand over a year.

[Saladin]

They need to be placed under performance related financial incentives, if they are found wanting for any reason down the line deduct a portion of their pension etc. They need structure, parameters and penalties just like everyone else -otherwise absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That's what I said! Imagine if you had to back up your promises with kWh's or you were out on your ear. The side benefits would be global equality and an end to wars.

I'll start a thread someday. Here's not the place..it's a titan of an idea. I need a think-tank to iron out the wrinkles with me.

Democracy is a fallacy, it doesn't exist, not in practice. Did you elect your boss or your teacher or sign a constitution?
We live in a Plutocracy. Inmates are runnning the asylum...I ain't waiting on them to save me.
.

[Mart]

Does air conditioning accelerate global warming...Yes! It's a heat pump and it makes more heat than it displaces.
Natural gas is a weapon too. Approx 10% of the global production is leaking. What? Yes! "Natural" is a marketing word for methane.

Sorry for the digression, but wondering if folk can give me a quick lesson on this subject.

So, first off, the conventional energy to run an A/C will mean more FF consumption, thus more AGW, happy with that.

Stage two, A/C and PV seem to be a great mix with matching time periods, and in my case I got 2 A2A units that almost entirely provide heat, thus shifting some space heating away from GCH to leccy demand, which in the UK is getting greener. The exception, is a rough estimate of 5-10 days a year when during heatspikes they are used for A/C. So far this year, that has been just one day.

So, I hope the heating gains offset the A/C use by a very large margin.

But ..... stage three, here's the big one, that I don't fully understand. What happens if the A/C is run off PV generation. I'm not concerned with the shifted (pumped) heat, as I assume that just balances out(?) So what about the leccy consumption?

Am I right to think that leccy consumption can be thought of as heat in a 1:1 ratio? So 1kWh of leccy consumed in the house 'escapes' as 1kWh(t)?

Next, how much heat does PV avoid. If a panel generates 1kWh of leccy, has it reduced the solar gain from the sun by 1kWh(t), I really don't know.

Just something I've been pondering as to whether PV powered A/C comes out relatively neutral in net heat gain. I am ignoring the energy cost of manufacturing the PV & A/C though.