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Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 10:56 am
by Countrypaul
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:06 am
by dan_b
Hmm and we don't see "waste incinerators" on Gridwatch (or similar sites) either?
What a nightmare.
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:15 am
by smegal
dan_b wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:06 am
Hmm and we don't see "waste incinerators" on Gridwatch (or similar sites) either?
What a nightmare.
Which is interesting as there is a reasonable installed capacity. I guess most are connected at DNO level. I understand that even Ferrybridge is, which is interesting.
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:17 am
by Countrypaul
The article seems to focus on a very small part of a large process, the part that I think is almost a by product of the main process,
There is no mention of the cost of collecting & shipping the waste, nor of the disposal cost of the solid by products. By cost I mean both energy wise and financial. If the cost of collecting and shippig were also included I suspect the figures would be signficantly worse.
Given that, AIUI, the main objective is to dispose of waste rather than generate electricity (which is a valuable by product)surely a comparison with other relevant options should also be included.
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:39 am
by Moxi
I remember waste incinerators being phased out in the 70’s and 80’s over worries about PCB’s etc, but I understand that newer walking grate hearths and combustion analysis means they’re better able to ensure thermal destruction of these compounds.
The big issue is we don’t properly recycle our rubbish - if we did then there wouldn’t be any waste to find a place for.
But we won’t pay the costs for this, and many people won’t sort and segregate their waste at home to help so incineration and landfill stays as the main option to stop us disappearing under our own rubbish.
Moxi
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 12:56 pm
by resybaby
One of these plants just a few miles up the road from me, supposedly to burn my counties waste and create power.
I inspected the domestic and fire water suppression systems on the site for UK regs compliance, had to redesign a few bits for them in order i could give the neccasary certifications and approvals. French design US overseers not being UK compliant. some cool stuff in there though.
A dockyard also down the road 20miles away that i deal with.
Went there once and they had 6000 tonnes of bailed up cardboard stored up from local domestic collections stacked up on a pier over the sea.
They were spraying 24/7 said cardboard with mains water via 2 x 2" automatic hoses to reduce risk of fires!
I asked why not use the seawater it was currently stored directly above instead of a scare local resource from the mains.
They told me you couldnt use seawater due to the minerals in it as the cardboard was all being shipped to Scandanavia to be burnt in one of their heat/power furnaces and the minerals would damage the stainless flue system.
Stuck in the back of my throat all the stupidity about the whole recycling thing that day did im afraid. Its all about the money, not the planet was the disappointing lesson I learned.
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:05 pm
by smegal
resybaby wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 12:56 pm
One of these plants just a few miles up the road from me, supposedly to burn my counties waste and create power.
I inspected the domestic and fire water suppression systems on the site for UK regs compliance, had to redesign a few bits for them in order i could give the neccasary certifications and approvals. French design US overseers not being UK compliant. some cool stuff in there though.
A dockyard also down the road 20miles away that i deal with.
Went there once and they had 6000 tonnes of bailed up cardboard stored up from local domestic collections stacked up on a pier over the sea.
They were spraying 24/7 said cardboard with mains water via 2 x 2" automatic hoses to reduce risk of fires!
I asked why not use the seawater it was currently stored directly above instead of a scare local resource from the mains.
They told me you couldnt use seawater due to the minerals in it as the cardboard was all being shipped to Scandanavia to be burnt in one of their heat/power furnaces and the minerals would damage the stainless flue system.
Stuck in the back of my throat all the stupidity about the whole recycling thing that day did im afraid. Its all about the money, not the planet was the disappointing lesson I learned.
Hopefully that is changing. The UK is one of the few countries with an excess of scrap cardboard, so paper mill companies are taking an interest for recycling.
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:13 pm
by Moxi
We have a thin film recycling start up over at the old Mon Aluminium smelter site, not sure how they are getting on but they had planned to deal with most of the UK's thin film plastics (normally goes to landfill) as well as imports from Europe eventually, the char would go to road surfacing the oil products would be sent down the road to Ellesmere port refinery where they can use it as a 10% substitute to crude.
I know Japan are very good at recovering hydrocarbon chains from TFP so hopefully the Canadian backed business at Mon will emulate their success.
Moxi
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:23 pm
by ecogeorge
I have always wondered why cardboard can't be pelleted and burnt as fuel in boilers?
George
Re: Burning waste now dirtiest form of power it seems
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:54 pm
by resybaby
I think its likely to do with the amount of ash left behind after burning for one thing.
My log burner is specifically designed to run on a bed of permament ash that only gets removed once/twice a year. But should i burn cardboard, christmas packaging for example, even my appliance chokes up with the quantity of it.