Page 1 of 4

Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:30 am
by AE-NMidlands
Guardian article today: How can Britain cut emissions when the Tory party fetishises travel?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ses-travel says (amongst other stuff)
Whether it’s by car or plane, we need to do less. Yet the government thinks of mobility as a freedom for it to champion

Travel is often a form of privilege. It needs time and money, and sometimes a confidence that you are welcome somewhere else. During a pandemic and a climate crisis, with travel clearly playing a central role in both, to regularly move across large distances requires an ever stronger sense of entitlement.

Yet the great benefits of travel – social, cultural, economic, psychological – have not gone away. And nor has the power of the travel lobby. When flights to the US resumed for Britons this week, after a long Covid hiatus, much of the media coverage read like an airline press release. There were only occasional hints that today’s transatlantic jets do not fit well with the goals of Cop26.
...
With his fondness for private jets and dislike of delivering bad news, Boris Johnson does not feel like a prime minister suited to bringing our travel habit under control. In fact he is still hoping it won’t need to be. In the foreword to his government’s latest plan for reducing carbon emissions, he wrote: “In 2050, we will still be driving cars, flying planes … but our cars will be electric [and] our planes will be zero emission, allowing us to fly guilt-free.”

From its enthusiasm for roadbuilding to its refusal to raise fuel duty, from its tax cut for domestic air passengers to its reluctance to close our borders during the pandemic, Johnson leads a government that seems to fetishise mobility.

...
Conservative voters appear particularly resistant to cutting back on travel. According to the pollsters Ipsos Mori, they are significantly less likely than Labour supporters to favour a tax on frequent flyers. But there is a chance that this could change. An estimated 15% of the population take 70% of the UK’s flights. Even if all these frequent flyers are Tories – which they are not – that is a much smaller proportion of the population than the party’s total vote.So it follows that many Conservatives aren’t big travellers. Among less wealthy Tories and more environmentally conscious ones, there may be many people who feel – or who will come to feel, as the climate crisis worsens – that protecting the restless lifestyles of the richest Britons should be less of a government priority.

It remains hard, though, to envisage a party that so reveres consumer choice seriously restricting flying, let alone driving. Not having to think about the wider consequences of our consumer decisions is one of the seductive prospects that modern Conservatism has always offered.

It’s a bit easier to imagine a Labour government, led by Keir Starmer or some other stern figure, telling us that unlimited travel is no longer justifiable – at least until technology makes zero-emission journeys possible. But even with the Tories having a terrible autumn, such a government, like zero-emission jets, still seems a long way off. If we want to be less toxic travellers, for the foreseeable future it’s up to us.

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:31 am
by Stinsy
Finding less carbon-intensive ways to travel and less carbon-intensive products to consume is one (rather blunt) tool. The reality is that we need to travel less and consume less. But that requires a much bigger change, one where "fiscal growth" is nolonger our primary concern.

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:49 am
by Stig
One problem with a tax on frequent flyers is that it makes flying even more of a privilege available to those who can afford it. Not very equitable but what other tools does a government have to persuade people to cut their carbon emissions?

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:09 am
by Bugtownboy
What’s wrong with a personal Carbon quota ? Apply to every consumable, including fuel. Everyone gets the same annual allowance, but they can be transferred/traded/saved.

Surely if we have to meet a Carbon target it’s, ok maybe idealistic, way of achieving it equitably.

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:30 am
by Stinsy
Stig wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:49 am One problem with a tax on frequent flyers is that it makes flying even more of a privilege available to those who can afford it. Not very equitable but what other tools does a government have to persuade people to cut their carbon emissions?
You could make the same argument about lots of things. Tax is a blunt instrument with which to affect positive change. Many taxes are regressive. But we like "sin taxes" in the UK. An example is the tax on cigarettes, it disproportionately affects poor people. Alcohol is similar. And fuel duty.

It is the same for "incentives". Do you think a poor person benefits from a 1% BiK rate on an £80k Tesla S?

I'd rather the government fund/enable development of our own holiday resorts. Remember the Blackpool redevelopment that was supposed to happen? Some committee got involved and decided it should instead happen in Coventry (or somewhere) and the whole thing got scrapped. Or funded large-scale EV charging (including sensibly priced electric).
Bugtownboy wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:09 am What’s wrong with a personal Carbon quota ? Apply to every consumable, including fuel. Everyone gets the same annual allowance, but they can be transferred/traded/saved.

Surely if we have to meet a Carbon target it’s, ok maybe idealistic, way of achieving it equitably.
I *REALLY* like this idea. Complex in practice, but it solves a whole heap of problems.

EG the gas price should go up considerably, but that is no problem for the older-person who isn't going to Orlando on holiday who can use their Carbon Credits™️ to offset the carbon content of their gas bill and have loads left over to sell.

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:31 am
by Joeboy
Bugtownboy wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:09 am What’s wrong with a personal Carbon quota ? Apply to every consumable, including fuel. Everyone gets the same annual allowance, but they can be transferred/traded/saved.

Surely if we have to meet a Carbon target it’s, ok maybe idealistic, way of achieving it equitably.
Absolutely.

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:39 am
by marshman
__

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:47 am
by Mart
Bugtownboy wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:09 am What’s wrong with a personal Carbon quota ? Apply to every consumable, including fuel. Everyone gets the same annual allowance, but they can be transferred/traded/saved.

Surely if we have to meet a Carbon target it’s, ok maybe idealistic, way of achieving it equitably.
I've always liked this idea in theory, but the complexity would have been hard. But these days when we are able to move money via mobile phones, and even trade cryptocurrencies, am I right in thinking (because I don't understand these trading platforms) that monitring and trading carbon vouchers would be pretty easy?

Have we mentioned these before, if so, apologies for repetition, but perhaps funds from selling carbon vouchers, if spent on home energy improvements, could get a bump up from the Gov. I'm sure there could be a 101 ways to create a virtuous circle around this.

Just a thought, but would we all start driving at about 45mph along the motorways? :shock:

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:52 am
by AE-NMidlands
Mart wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:47 am Just a thought, but would we all start driving at about 45mph along the motorways? :shock:
No, we would get the train! (which would be cheaper, both in credits and cash-wise to tempt us out of our polluting, resource- and space-gobbling tin boxes.)
Anyway, I thought that cars were designed for minimum fuel consumption at 56mph?
A

Re: Will we ever reduce the amount of travel or transport?

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:56 am
by Ken
There is no doubt the "carbon tax" is coming but it has to be done in a equitable manor ie you could not bring it in for just one form of pollution say cars but not gas or air travel. A carbon tax will achieve the objective but without long lawsuits princibally from the FF industry who have big budgets.

All the non polluting methods of transport will become cheaper compared to the polluting ones and market forces will do the rest ?