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Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:09 am
by nowty
I noticed last night that todays wholesale price for gas is 30p per therm or almost only 1p per kWh with the year ahead price being over 7 times that. Makes me think is there an easy quick way for the UK to store it.
https://marketwatch.zenergi.co.uk/price/10-05-2022/
Even my Octopus gas tracker tariff for today has dropped to the lowest I've seen it at 2.82p / kWh.
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:27 am
by Moxi
They were going to fil the redundant salt mines in Cheshire with Gas some decades back but abandoned that for short term supplies instead, not sure how long that sort of infrastructure would take to re-instate.
Theres a whole industry for flexible gas bladders that can be installed literally overnight if theres a wedge of land available to house them but they are the sort of size of the old town gas monitors so you would need a lot!
North sea storage ? not sure what infrastructure exists to pump back in to the wells out there ?
As usual we had the infrastructure once but let it go to rack and ruin so now we have to take the pain to re-build some contingency into our denuded infrastructure - again this is why short term 5 year politics doesn't fit well with National best interest - none of the politicians think further ahead than the next poll let alone whats required 15 years hence.
Moxi
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:35 am
by smegal
Moxi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:27 am
They were going to fil the redundant salt mines in Cheshire with Gas some decades back but abandoned that for short term supplies instead, not sure how long that sort of infrastructure would take to re-instate.
Theres a whole industry for flexible gas bladders that can be installed literally overnight if theres a wedge of land available to house them but they are the sort of size of the old town gas monitors so you would need a lot!
North sea storage ? not sure what infrastructure exists to pump back in to the wells out there ?
As usual we had the infrastructure once but let it go to rack and ruin so now we have to take the pain to re-build some contingency into our denuded infrastructure - again this is why short term 5 year politics doesn't fit well with National best interest - none of the politicians think further ahead than the next poll let alone whats required 15 years hence.
Moxi
This is one of the ones that I'm aware of in Cheshire.
https://www.storengy.co.uk/
There's no shortage of salt in the area, so I'd expect that "they" could build more.
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:46 am
by AE-NMidlands
smegal wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:35 am
Moxi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:27 am
They were going to fil the redundant salt mines in Cheshire with Gas some decades back but abandoned that for short term supplies instead, not sure how long that sort of infrastructure would take to re-instate.
Theres a whole industry for flexible gas bladders that can be installed literally overnight if theres a wedge of land available to house them but they are the sort of size of the old town gas monitors so you would need a lot!
North sea storage ? not sure what infrastructure exists to pump back in to the wells out there ?
As usual we had the infrastructure once but let it go to rack and ruin so now we have to take the pain to re-build some contingency into our denuded infrastructure - again this is why short term 5 year politics doesn't fit well with National best interest - none of the politicians think further ahead than the next poll let alone whats required 15 years hence.
Moxi
This is one of the ones that I'm aware of in Cheshire.
https://www.storengy.co.uk/
There's no shortage of salt in the area, so I'd expect that "they" could build more.
You beat me to it. Those caverns were specially "excavated" to ensure they were perfect for the job, Without doubt they can double their capacity if the price is right. I don't know if a well optimised for salt extraction could be proved to be fit for purpose for storage, although they were (supposed to be) isolated vertical pockets too. Anyway, I hope they know the market and were able to run their volume down ahead of the current low price...
Of course it doesn't benefit us consumers in any way at all, as what we pay is entirely down to the price that the retailers and generators hedged at a year or so ago.
A
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 12:03 pm
by Fintray
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 12:29 pm
by AE-NMidlands
I thought the problem was that it had already shut down? The wikipedia article says
In June 2017, Centrica announced the closure of the Rough gas storage site due to safety concerns. The rundown of the plant will take up to four years to complete
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 1:32 pm
by Fintray
AE-NMidlands wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:29 pm
I thought the problem was that it had already shut down? The wikipedia article says
In June 2017, Centrica announced the closure of the Rough gas storage site due to safety concerns. The rundown of the plant will take up to four years to complete
Yes, I know it has been shut down, just another problem with having critical services in the hands of companies rather than part of the national infrastructure. If it's not making money shut it down rather than ensure that the UK has a sufficient buffer of gas storage in case of emergencies.
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 3:12 pm
by Mart
My understanding is that the UK's level of gas storage has been proportionately low, compared to other European countries, for years. And as mentioned, has only gotten smaller with storage being closed down.
I assume that methane could be stored in the underground caverns and off-shore gas fields, that have been discussed for H2 or CAES (compressed air energy storage) long term energy storage to back up RE, and some of those individually, are of hundreds of TWh's in size?
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 4:01 pm
by nowty
My energy trader friend told me earlier that the UK has had a collapse in gas demand due to warmer weather and high retail prices. Also the Supply side is currently uncontrolled, i.e. record shipments of LNG.
From,
https://marketwatch.zenergi.co.uk/wp-co ... Report.pdf
EU & UK gas storage levels improve
Both the UK and EU have been able to begin injection season over April, beginning to
replenish gas storage levels. We have seen UK storage levels go from 78% to 89%, while
the much larger capacity of EU levels have climbed 26% to 32%.
It is a promising start to the replenishment, but for the case for the EU, this would have to
accelerate to reach a legal requirement of 90% by November. Reaching this figure would
put Europe into a much stronger position for next winter.
Re: Todays Wholesale Gas Price 1p / kWh
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 4:24 pm
by openspaceman
I thought once the gasometers went the only storage was that gas in the high pressure gas grid.