camelot-forum.co.uk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

No idea how accurate, though the variety of food & drink choice comparisons is interesting!

I don't think these type of press releases (or the research it is based on) are unbiased so I treat them with deep suspicion...

Lots of the "research" is funded by special interest groups trying to push their own agenda, and while the answers found are technically the correct ones to whatever question was asked, they are trying to swing public perception. Like the notorious, maybe apocryphal, journalist's question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" It can't be answered without incriminating yourself.

Re food (eating meat and drinking milk,) as far as I am concerned it's part of our culture and economy and has been for millenia. "They" want to put people off real milk so that dairy farmers go out of business and there are no male calves to be grown on and then go into the food system.

I also think it is very likely that the current epidemic of mental ill-health (Alzheimer's etc) is down to people eliminating animal fats from their diets over the last half-century...
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Mr Gus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:21 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

No idea how accurate, though the variety of food & drink choice comparisons is interesting!

Completely inaccurate the sooner people realise the BBC has an anti farming agenda the better.

As soon as you see a reference to Poole & Nomecek you know your looking at utter garbage.

The comments section made for interesting reading.

The person who quite rightly said these milks should be marked as oat-WATER, rice-WATER, soy-WATER etc was spot on, might be good as milk alternatives but the only milk is in the marketing.

I do enjoy the Oats, as ever brands quality are hit & miss, & I resent having rapeseed oil in it, just needs a bit of sweetness & a good shake prior to pouring.

on R4 recently (maybe the early morning farming programme) they pointed out that simple protein content of food vs. production (cash or carbon) economics is not a fair or sensible measure of efficiency or whatever.

It was stated that if you look at the actual bio-availability (i.e digestive uptake) of the amino acids, then the protein in veggie diets is only about 30% of what we get from the same weight of meat.

Having said that, it might have been a govt. spokesperson saying it, so they might just be pushing back against the pressure to do anything at all...

However it does fit in with my understanding that livestock, especially chickens and the star performers, pigs, are the most efficient way of turning plant stuff (maybe just starch?) into the protein and fat which is the most valuable part of our diet.
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Interesting point, hadn't heard that one.

My biggest problem, though, is that, after years of searching with genuine interest, I've yet to find one, single, peer-reviewed study from a vaguely reputable academic institution that doesn't conclude that we can and must reduce our consumption of meat and dairy.

If anyone can point me in the direction of one, I'm all ears, but I make this appeal periodically and as yet I'm still searching.

GarethC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:55 pm Interesting point, hadn't heard that one.

My biggest problem, though, is that, after years of searching with genuine interest, I've yet to find one, single, peer-reviewed study from a vaguely reputable academic institution that doesn't conclude that we can and must reduce our consumption of meat and dairy.

If anyone can point me in the direction of one, I'm all ears, but I make this appeal periodically and as yet I'm still searching.

Easily turn that on its head and suggest the reverse is true. Just follow the money as to why manufactured gloop is being promoted as a viable alternative to natural products of meat and dairy.

Well, to update this thread for no particular reason..

I've now had in quick succession around 15 litres by 15 different brands of "alt milk" (mainly oat milk, or a mix of)

The sweetness is pronounced, there is an obvious "oatiness" in flavour.
Most are fortified with a few vitamins / minerals, presumably to make it more akin to milk.
It is often as "creamy" due to added oil (not keen on that so much, does need a shake to mix every time)

Typically the price is £1.50 per litre so it does not price match milk in general, making it harder for folk to make the switch if so inclined.

It can have one day a clean taste, then the next tastes very slightly "uht"...combined with colour differences from the same pouring of milk, by contrast with alt milk you will ALWAYS have a builders cuppa in colour at the very least (so pouring is often more than milk quantities whilst you adjust)

The "Koko" is a mix of coconut milk / oats & a nice alternative out there.
Only one bad granular insipid one to report (an irish brand whose name eludes me)

Currently I can certainly rotate it, enjoy it but proper milk is still leading.

No problems from wife & daughter as to usinf it for velvetiser hot chocolate, (but again that can be 1/2 a carton in one hit)

No idea how it works in cooking, perhaps someone else has seen proper chefs try them out? (non sponsored pieces)

NB the "reduced land requirements" per litre are of interest to me (I shall not lie) ..but typically with a new foodstuff I wish to not have a problem with I will go all in until I'm able to make a switch "if & when" ..I prefer milk, I eat more pork & chicken than beef, but more fish than "meat" (so it is good to read about the conversion rates as a reminder) if we put it all on a footprint level.

Saying that I cooked some steak (sous vide) for the wife & daughter yesterday to make use of the heated water used to cook pork at a similar temperature, (kid doesn't get steak unless she's back home) whilst I tend to eat yet more rice, peas & corn meals ( a bit of kadoya sesame spurs me on in terms of taste & smell where steamed rice is concerned)

I'd really like to see some comprehensive data (rather than bbc circa 2019 faux reportage) on alt milks if anyone see's anything (point being the market has grown since 2019 so presumably the footprint has likely changed also)