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The cascade effect
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 7:05 pm
by Fueltheburn
I have been thinking about this a lot recently and visiting Joe's home puts it into stark context. I can see what I need to do, In the same way as looking at Nowtys setup.
His home is like playing Wheres Wally with solar panels.
Available real estate has been utilised where possible in different orientations and deviations to cover low sun and the rising and setting positions of the day.
This has obviously taken a number of years to implement but has grown in the same way that compounding interest works. Money saved from the original setup gets re-invested into the next set of panels.
As these panels save more money, it frees up more money.
Money saved is then invested into batteries. Batteries then allow the storage and resale of electric at a higher price point and so your money works harder for you.
The way I see this is that the extra money saved goes towards car repayments which then opens up the possibility of cheap rate electric and the savings and resale of electric accelerates further.
By the time you end up with a heat pump - you have free heating for your home, free car travel and also get paid enough to pay off your new electric car monthly payments
If I can get my steel portal up soon (covered in panels)
I go from paying:
-£150/ month car storage.
-£300/month electric in depths of winter.
-£300/month in fuel.
To potentially:
£0 car storage.
£0 electric/reaching parity.
£0/month in fuel.
+£100/month from export of electric.
+£60/month for storing other folks cars or bike.
This is a wild swing of expenditure to potential income.
Should have dealt with this far earlier
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 7:25 pm
by Joeboy
It was great to see ye. You're going at it and planning well. Can't ask much more than that. I found that Enphase & Hoymiles additions wiped out all the background and small use equipment. This leaves the batteries or export to take the main stage on the bigger arrays.
But they wouldn't look as good without the many small one panel systems taking care of business and doing the sweeping up. Thanks for the Vermiculite, see ye for a pint when ye get back.
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 7:47 am
by Stinsy
Fueltheburn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 7:05 pm
I have been thinking about this a lot recently and visiting Joe's home puts it into stark context. I can see what I need to do, In the same way as looking at Nowtys setup.
His home is like playing Wheres Wally with solar panels.
Available real estate has been utilised where possible in different orientations and deviations to cover low sun and the rising and setting positions of the day.
This has obviously taken a number of years to implement but has grown in the same way that compounding interest works. Money saved from the original setup gets re-invested into the next set of panels.
As these panels save more money, it frees up more money.
Money saved is then invested into batteries. Batteries then allow the storage and resale of electric at a higher price point and so your money works harder for you.
The way I see this is that the extra money saved goes towards car repayments which then opens up the possibility of cheap rate electric and the savings and resale of electric accelerates further.
By the time you end up with a heat pump - you have free heating for your home, free car travel and also get paid enough to pay off your new electric car monthly payments
If I can get my steel portal up soon (covered in panels)
I go from paying:
-£150/ month car storage.
-£300/month electric in depths of winter.
-£300/month in fuel.
To potentially:
£0 car storage.
£0 electric/reaching parity.
£0/month in fuel.
+£100/month from export of electric.
+£60/month for storing other folks cars or bike.
This is a wild swing of expenditure to potential income.
Should have dealt with this far earlier
You get extra benefits too.
Saving sessions for example. Once you have the battery system as well as a bazillion smartplugs you can make £10-20 every SS. And power hours too, you can make the most of them once you have batteries and control systems in place.
The other day someone was telling me how expensive EVs are to run. I explained that my electric bill is less than £100 a month and that includes fueling 2x EVs. (I didn’t dare tell him that the £100 also includes heating my house.)
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:37 pm
by Mart
The virtuous circle is something that really excites me. Each product helps the others, and leans on them too, to increase benefits.
I appreciate there are costs involved, but some will be instead of, not additional, but the whole is definitely greater than the sum of the parts - PV, HP/A2A, batts, BEV, cheap rate.
I love having a small powerstation on my roofs (and garden).
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:55 pm
by Ken
Problem is the chicken and the egg. When you are struggling to pay the mortgage and fuel bills where is the capital investment. True though that as time goes on these techs are becoming more affordable. Probably take out a lone, if one can, to fit PV is the starting point.
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:00 pm
by Stinsy
Ken wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:55 pm
Problem is the chicken and the egg. When you are struggling to pay the mortgage and fuel bills where is the capital investment. True though that as time goes on these techs are becoming more affordable. Probably take out a lone, if one can, to fit PV is the starting point.
While some people are genuinely destitute, the majority prioritise having the latest smartphone, or a new car on finance, or whatever.
My point is that you need a delayed-gratification mindset to be on this journey. The majority just don’t seem to be wired that way.
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:26 pm
by Joeboy
Stinsy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:00 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:55 pm
Problem is the chicken and the egg. When you are struggling to pay the mortgage and fuel bills where is the capital investment. True though that as time goes on these techs are becoming more affordable. Probably take out a lone, if one can, to fit PV is the starting point.
While some people are genuinely destitute, the majority prioritise having the latest smartphone, or a new car on finance, or whatever.
My point is that you need a delayed-gratification mindset to be on this journey. The majority just don’t seem to be wired that way.
Exactly Stinsy. I've been hearing the "no money" excuse for apathy and indifference my whole life and railed against it for the same time span. I could have a single panel/single hoymiles nice set up for well under £200, journey begins. I could do the same with a 2nd hand enphase m250 or similar and a city plumbing panel for £110.
It's all a mindset. Save 50p a week and in just over 4 years you have the first system. I'm not joking. If an adult can't save that a week this isn't the game for them, best of luck to them in life.
P.S, wear a jumper and a hat indoors and save 50p a day on electric, the first PV system is live in Months, not years. Make it a game not a chore?
None of this is meant as a dig at anyone but simply put, PV is one of the best ways to free yourself from the yoke.
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 4:41 pm
by AGT
Yes, I hear people in my work taking loans for cars, cars costing more than their salary…..
All show
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 6:11 pm
by nowty
You don't even need savings, just be inventive, my story started 14 years ago and I partly paid for my first FIT system with a 0% credit card and then card tarted for several years until it was all paid off through a combination of FIT income and subsequent savings on bills.
Years later I bought my Pylontech batteries and other solar panels with a cheap bank loan because the bank kept pestering me with loan offers at 3% interest. I was going to apply as home improvement but ironically "solar panels" were specifically not allowed so I just ticked the car loan box instead.
And as others have said, you can start with a couple of panels plus cheap inverter for buttons. You could even replace one take out coffee per week for the free Greggs / Nero coffee from Octopus and in a year that will save you enough to start with a single panel and micro inverter. There really is no excuse.
Re: The cascade effect
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:50 pm
by ecogeorge
Not yet up to other peoples achievments ,.......... have done tracker / gshp/ turbine etc in a previous life but just want to add my 2p....
JUST START ......
I started in 1996 ish .... bough a 30w pv panel , made a circit using zenner diode etc and used it to charge a rechargeable torch that otherwise sat on permanent mains trickle........
Then bought 60w BP panels @ >£300 each !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-used micro inverters ......... changed light bulbs for new fangled cfl's ..........
How times change.
PV soooooooooooo cheap -put 1,2 or 3 panels up use cheap chinese micro inverter.
Start a spreadsheet on consumption .......
Freezers on timeclocks ..........
i'll get my coat .......
