Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

Wind turbines
marshman
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:58 pm

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#11

Post by marshman »

Moxi wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:47 pm Plus one to Stinsy's comment, the connections are there, theres space around if not in the WT - just seems an obvious option unless anyone knows better.

Moxi
Yes there is plenty of space BUT taking Little Cheyne Court as an example the land is actively farmed pretty much right up to the base of the turbines. (see the pics below). So to add a "standard" container sized battery pack to each turbine would encroach on that farmland, if using Tesla Magapacks (30ft long, so 3/4 the size of a standard 40ft container) then you would need additional space around them for security fencing - you can pretty much access all of Little Cheyne Court on foot or even drive up to them along the farm tracks. I can imagine a lot of opposition down here to adding that to each turbine. Then each one (assuming Tesla Megapack ) is just under 4MWh capacity. The turbines on that site are rated at 2.5MW so a couple of hours and the pack is charged. The flip side is, a couple of hours and it is discharged. Yes it will increase utilisation but I see the biggest issue as long term storage where we have low wind for days - battery storage, pumped storage is OK for a few hours to help ride peak demand but not longer periods and I see nothing viable on the horizon, certainly not at the scale needed. "small" battery packs at a wind (or solar) farm are not going to solve that one.

Mounting batteries in the turbine tower sounds a good idea but I think is a non starter - too many different designs, access problems and also towers are not designed to support the massive weight of batteries - though I suppose they could be.

Image

Image
Last edited by marshman on Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dan_b
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
Location: SW London

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#12

Post by dan_b »

Paying turbines to stop generating is actually not all that hare-brained.
It's a lot quicker and easier to balance local network capacity issues by turning off some turbines than it is to completely switch off an entire gas plant. It actually provides additional flexibility. Which will become increasingly useful as we move ever forwards to getting fossil fuel generation off our Grid completely.
Yuff wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:14 am
Swwils wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:37 pmAnd the cost.
Which would be cheaper installing the batteries or paying them billions to switch them off, which is the current hare-brained solution…. :P
Tesla Model 3 Performance
Oversees an 11kWp solar array at work
Coriolis
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:42 pm

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#13

Post by Coriolis »

Moxi wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:06 am So a few Iso freight containers of batteries in-between wind turbines is a hazard to the wind turbines ? I didn't think they were that fragile ? also are the industrial batteries a different chemistry to the pylontechs we tend to install as the general consensus seems to be low fire risk for those ? What about capacitors as an alternate albeit very temporary storage medium ? are they any safer ?

Moxi
The risk was in specifically in response to your suggestion to put them inside the actual WT towers. (There was another post not long ago with the same suggestion).

Co-located BESS already exists in UK. Whitelee onshore wind farm has a 50MW BESS attached now.

https://www.scottishpower.com/news/page ... ystem.aspx

And large scale solar farms are typically being developed with BESS on site as well.

https://www.energy-storage.news/uk-deve ... hallenges/

BESS for offshore wind is more likely to be located next to the onshore substations. E.g. Blackhillock and Creyke Beck (see the recent thread about the largest grid connected battery).
dan_b
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
Location: SW London

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#14

Post by dan_b »

200MW/400MWh grid battery energised at Blackhillock - currently the largest in Europe

https://renews.biz/99142/zenobe-energis ... tish-bess/
Tesla Model 3 Performance
Oversees an 11kWp solar array at work
User avatar
Fintray
Posts: 1758
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 6:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#15

Post by Fintray »

dan_b wrote: Mon Mar 03, 2025 11:40 am 200MW/400MWh grid battery energised at Blackhillock - currently the largest in Europe

https://renews.biz/99142/zenobe-energis ... tish-bess/
I see it says it will be increased to 300MW/600MWh at some point.
3.87kWp PV
10.24kWp PV SolarEdge system
Tesla Powerwall 2
MK2 PV router DHW diverter
Morso 5kW WBS
Vaillant AroTherm 10kW ASHP
Nissan Leaf
robl
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:41 pm

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#16

Post by robl »

dan_b wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:54 am Paying turbines to stop generating is actually not all that hare-brained.
It's a lot quicker and easier to balance local network capacity issues by turning off some turbines than it is to completely switch off an entire gas plant. It actually provides additional flexibility. Which will become increasingly useful as we move ever forwards to getting fossil fuel generation off our Grid completely.
In Australia I believe they have so much rooftop PV that they are getting close to grid failure at times due to overcapacity that cannot easily be switched off! I think they are considering spiking the voltage high to force some generators to trip out.
In the long term, we really should be using "spare" power, but I can see more acutely that grid stabilty must be maintained. I wonder if wind turbeines will ever "go the other way"; either spin against the wind, or feather into it, in order to dissipate power to maintain grid stability Image
4kWp solar, EV

Diy: MVHR, 150mm EWI, 15kWh batt, 2.4kW GSHP & no gas
dan_b
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
Location: SW London

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#17

Post by dan_b »

In Australia the conditions are perfect for more batteries - apparently over 20% of new domestic solar installs now have battery storage at the same time - I'm sure a few policy levers could increase that a lot - indeed the export tariff was cut in Australia in 2023 and that triggered a rise in battery installs.
Tesla Model 3 Performance
Oversees an 11kWp solar array at work
dan_b
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
Location: SW London

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#18

Post by dan_b »

That big battery is running Octopus's "Kraken" platform.

Guess that means Octopus will be participating in their own Savings Sessions?!

https://renews.biz/99166/blackhillock-b ... -platform/
Tesla Model 3 Performance
Oversees an 11kWp solar array at work
dan_b
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
Location: SW London

Re: Batteries increase wind farm utilisation

#19

Post by dan_b »

Another BESS co-located with a wind farm is being built for the Hornsea 3 offshore wind farm.

https://renews.biz/99197/orsted-turns-sod-on-uk-bess/
Tesla Model 3 Performance
Oversees an 11kWp solar array at work
Post Reply