Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

[Joeboy]

Hopefully you both arranged for the 25 quid referral credit between you?

Nope, ain't my thing.

Although it could be!


Sent the question. Cheers Gus.

[Joeboy]

Nice one Joeboy. You've now got me thinking about what size of stake to plump for in WT2. Have to confess to being a little confused as Ripple talk about how much leccy we consume to base our share upon with up to 120% which seems perfectly fair to me given that its a co-operative and we should include as many as possible who might wish to join. Graig Fatha will cover around 90% of our energy imports, so based on that then we may be limited to another 30%. Having PV, then import and consumption return different figures, while we consume approx 9MW annually, imports amount to about half this figure.
So, should I base my figure on consumption as Ripple suggest or Import?

You can add or remove PV from the calculator. I think its best to aim for import cover of 120% or so based on import?

[nowty]

The 120% is on import and the reason its 120% is because Ripple are trying to get the tax man to agree the same tax free status as domestic solar panels. Its a little known fact that if you have more PV generation than 120% of your use (before you installed PV), the installation could be classed as a commercial installation and not domestic and theoretically the income becomes taxable.

The monthly rebate from ripple (minus 1/240 of your original investment, cos that's a capital repayment but runs out after 20 years) is classed as interest (not dividend) income, so is partly taxable.

I persuaded a close friend who is minted to put the leccy bill in his wifes name and get her to buy the investment so her annual interest allowance would cover any tax liability.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/bim40520

[Mr Gus]

Joe,
Seeing as i'm not the best one for finding my way around their website i'm not the best person to ask there (for anyone else strong-arming others into investment)
I'll try & link the referral here when I find it.
(EDIT) Got it, you need to log into your ripple account home page, slide down the page... you will find it BELOW your reservation, + BELOW the LIVE UK ENERGY MIX..
"REFER A FRIEND" (HAS A UNIQUE LINK TO COPY & PASTE)
LIKE....
https://rippleenergy.com?ogu=1434
Meanwhile the slider is on the page link below.

The slider: https://rippleenergy.com/reservation-fee/offer

Nosey question to all, anyone used the gift vouchers yet to pre-pay toward their desired amount?

[nowty]

Re-posting again, with a copy of the tax rule about the 120% issue which Ripple are trying to persuade the tax man that the share of a remote wind turbine feeding their premises should be included in the tax free rule for domestic microgeneration.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/bim40520


BIM40520 - Specific receipts: domestic microgeneration: Income Tax exemption for domestic microgeneration
S782A Income Tax (Trading and Other Income) Act 2005

With effect from tax year 2007-08 there is an exemption from Income Tax for an individual’s income from the sale of electricity generated by a microgeneration system where:

the system is installed at or near domestic premises occupied by the individual, and
the individual intends that the amount of electricity generated by the microgeneration system will not significantly exceed the amount of electricity consumed in those premises.
For the purpose of this exemption ‘domestic premises’ means premises used wholly or mainly as a separate private dwelling.

A ‘microgeneration system’ is defined in S4 Climate Change and Sustainable Energy Act 2006.

This exemption is aimed at domestic microgeneration which is primarily intended to match the generator’s own home consumption needs. The term ‘significantly exceed’ in (b) above is not defined in Section 782A and should be considered by reference to the particular circumstances. However, in general, a householder who does not intend to generate an amount of electricity more than 20% in excess of their own domestic needs is unlikely to be regarded as intending to significantly exceed the amount of electricity consumed in their own premises.

No income tax will therefore arise on feed-in tariffs received by an individual from domestic microgeneration where the above conditions are met.

The exemption may apply where an individual installs a microgeneration system at a property which is not the individual’s main residence provided that the other domestic property is used by the individual, wholly or mainly, as a separate private dwelling and the other conditions are met.

[Adokforme]

You can add or remove PV from the calculator. I think its best to aim for import cover of 120% or so based on import?

Thanks Joeboy, I appreciate your thoughts on this.

Re-posting again, with a copy of the tax rule about the 120% issue which Ripple are trying to persuade the tax man that the share of a remote wind turbine feeding their premises should be included in the tax free rule for domestic microgeneration.

Thanks too Nowty, that makes it pretty conclusive and I'm more than happy to stick with it. Wouldn't want to rock the boat or cause embarrassment to the scheme.
Bearing in mind it was nearly two years ago when coming up with a figure for annual consumption it was rather a guesstimate based on part usage of leccy while transitioning away from gas, where upon I arrived at 4.5MW's. Checking import this year at the end of November it was 4.192 while the IHD is now showing 4.310, so not far away.
Prior to PV, EV and renewables our annual consumption was typically 3MW's Leccy and another 10-12 MW's for gas and while I/we had the benefit of the transition stage to base our future consumption figure upon, quite how others who have yet to embark on the process will get on I can't begin to imagine.

Unless that is what the 7MW's figure I've previously seen mentioned is aimed at mitigating?

[Mr Gus]

How about A "sum of us" or similar petition is produced?

Whilst folk interested in W/T ripple energy type schemes are few & far between (for now) it's the type of seed that ought be sown as to the public taking charge on a grand scale of their small scale, individual use, & by god that ought be praised & rewarded from a green shoots level, especially when it means folk with unsuitable land can invest what they always *wanted* in their back garden but the numbers nor the space did not work.

Time to contact HRH charles & radio 4 methinks.

[nowty]

Unless that is what the 7MW's figure I've previously seen mentioned is aimed at mitigating?

The 7MWh figure which for Ripple WT1 is about 2600 watts share or a £4,500 investment seems to be an arbitrary number low enough for the authorities not to be bothered with. This is the amount that could be purchased with no questions asked irrespective of how low your actual import was.

As I applied for 3000 watts or an estimated 8MWh generation figure which did not quite match my actual import I had to provide an explanation. It was simple, as SWMBO had been on furlough for over a year, therefore the EV had not been used for commuting and also I had not been boosting the storage heaters the previous winter as gas was too cheap. I provided an estimate of the extra leccy I would consume and it was accepted.

Now with the second EV, charging the storage heaters for longer and running the heatpump even more in an attempt to eliminate my gas use I am now forecasting maybe an annual import of 10MWh which would imply I could go for 12MWh under the 120% rule. So I am hoping to be allowed another 1500 watts of WT2 but another 2000 watts would be nice to make it a round 5000 watts in total. Maybe another storage heater or an air conditioning unit might be an accepted explanation.

[John_S]

I am confused about the tax treatment and the electricity usage limit.

As I understand it, each member gets a reduction in their electricity bill. Part of this is a repayment of our investment and part is taxed as interest income. If that is the case, why are HMRC bothered about the 120% rule for FITs? Our income is either redemption of our shares (no gain, so not taxable) or it is being treated as interest income and will be taxed.

There is also a cash maximum investment limit but little detail on the amount.

It is difficult to understand why the Coop might otherwise want to restrict us investing in WT2 (such that we exceed our watts cap) given that they have already allowed a large investor to buy the remaining shares in WT1 so that the loan facility was not needed.

I appreciate that our agreements with ripple do not allow us to sell/transfer our ownership shares for two years, but there might be a case for asking ripple to relax this restrictions to allow us to swap ownership shares in WT1 for shares in WT2 if there are sufficient investors in WT2 who also want to own part of WT1 as it would allow more diversification of risk and supply.

[Mr Gus]

That would interest me too.