camelot-forum.co.uk

Nowty was very kindly keeping a 'secret list' from the old site of who had bought into the Ripple Wind Turbine. The count was I think 7 when the main breaker was thrown at the old place.

For those that aren't aware of this excellent wrinkle in the available RE fabric it goes like this.

A company was formed 'Ripple', who have the idea that a wind turbine can be owned by multiple people and with the benefit of our interlinked world and companies such as Octopus energy backing the idea we can as individuals buy a percentage of a wind turbines output. That percentage of ownership dictates how much of the generated power at the turbine head belongs to you. This is then offset against your Electricity bill after costs and I think but I am willing to be corrected if you are ramping up Turbine credit will accumulate within your account to be offset when you need it or even a cash payout?

I genuinely think this is a wonderful idea, In my mind as i'm in Scotland and the turbine is in Wales and i won't see it (unless I pass by), I think of it as a V Turbine, Its not of course, it is real not virtual and it is being built as i type, the head and mast are ordered, the foundations are going in and the Welsh Govt are weighing in to bring the project to fruition.

I personally bought in to offset my home consumption & EV home charging across the Winter Months. I think its worth a look for anyone at all who is even just a wee bit green or maybe don't have the space to go full on, so here's the link to site.

I make nothing from this, I just think that good ideas should be trumpeted whenever possible.

https://rippleenergy.com/

Edit 04/06/21- I enjoyed running through the thought process again so much that I bought more. I am now with a little luck from the gods the proud owner of 6.2MWh of output from Garig Fatha. This will hopefully allow me to fully charge the EV In Winter as well as continue my adventures in non gas cooking and heating of the home in Winter. Regardless of how it all plays out on the output front I have positioned myself for a lower carbon future.

I thought I would add some detail to Joeboy's post because it is a little complicated. I also make nothing from this in terms of others joining the scheme.

Yes, my secret list from the old forum had 7 members who had admitted being part of it, well actually only 5 others as Joeboy and I are included in the 7. I wont mention the forum by name but it starts with how you get from A to B, and ends with the name of on old 1982 Sci Fi film starring Jeff Bridges who got stuck in a video game.

I have paid just over £5k to buy exactly a 3kW share of the 2.5MW turbine so I will own 1/833 of it. Its forecasted to generate me 8017 kWh's a year.

Some months ago it was unclear if the actual turbine would happen. It had planning permission but circa £4m was required to build it. Ripple was having difficulty persuading enough energy customers to buy in, but now it’s happening as the Welsh Government has intervened and is taking an equity stake and the Welsh Development Bank is providing a variable sized loan to fund the rest if required. If more people are persuaded to join, then the loan might not even be required. The turbine is a 2.5MW Vensys has been ordered for November delivery to the UK and operational circa December 2021. Estimated life 20 to 30 years.

https://www.vensys.de/en/wind-turbines/ ... ensys-121/

https://developmentbank.wales/news-and- ... -following

Basically you can invest almost anything from a mere £25 to the amount that it would cost to generate up to 120% of your normal import of leccy. I think this is for tax reasons, because there is unlikely to be any tax to pay on the returns because you are paid via a monthly rebate on your energy bill directly proportional to the actual performance of the wind turbine. But from what I gather no evidence seems to be requested if you buy up to 6999kWh’s worth which is about £4,536.

Ripple is just a facilitator so if Ripple Energy goes bust it wont really matter. The turbine is being built by CleanEarthEnergy and will be owned by a Co-operative company which everyone who joins will be a shareholder in. And although you will own a pro rata amount of the wind turbine its a single vote for each person so no matter how little you buy you still have the same say of what happens.

https://cleanearthenergy.com/tenacity-p ... plication/

So the way it works is,

Octopus Energy buys the leccy for the cost price of the generation through a Power Purchase Agreement. The difference between the wholesale price and the cost price is given back to you as a rebate on your energy bill a month in arrears. Currently the rebate is estimated at 4.5p per kWh. And as I am only paying an average of 5.6p per kWh on my entire import which is basically charging my battery bank on the Octopus GO tariff in winter, my bill will be very very low.

However, its not for everyone, there are some Pros and Cons with this.

PROS
Nothing has been done anywhere in the world like this, yes there are some community windfarms, but you just get paid a dividend. In this, you own the windfarm and you are supplied via your Energy Supplier who buys the leccy direct from the Co-op company. So be part of something new and innovative.

You can be on any tariff with Octopus, so even Agile or Go is OK.

You don’t have to match your usage with the wind turbine so for me its fantastic, as I import practically nothing in the Summer and tons in winter for my heatpump, home battery and EV charging.

A solar panel on your roof will generate the same as a solar panel at a solar farm and mostly in Summer. A small wind turbine on a domestic house will generate practically nothing, but a small share of a big one in a windy place will generate tons and mostly in the Winter. So its a nice balance.

Probably no tax to pay on the bill rebates. Its classed as interest but we all (depending on out tax rates) have an allowance in addition to our personal income tax allowances. Also there is an accounting quirk where for the first 20 years part of the rebate is classed as a repayment of your capital, therefore that part is not taxable. And since domestic solar FIT income is tax free, its possible the taxman will allow this as being tax free too.

If by some quirk you end up in big credit, say you go traveling and not use any leccy, then you can request a transfer out to your bank account in the same way if you overpay your leccy or gas supplier.

The estimate of generation has been based on a pessimistic basis, so it may generate more than forecasted.

If you move house, it moves with you and if you die, you can pre nominate someone else to own it. I think they are allowing a similar transfer if you end up in a long term care home.

If leccy prices rise in the future, the returns will be higher.

The life of the turbine might be longer than forecasted, so again the total return may be higher.

You can buy or sell some or all of your watts for the residual value to other members of the scheme.

CONS
Its not built yet, so there could be a delay, or there could be a construction disaster.

The construction may cost more that forecasted, so more cash may be requested or you may lose some of your share.

Ripple may go bust which may make the future power purchase agreements more complicated.

The forecasted generation may be too optimistic and generates less, so less rebate.

The future cost of leccy may fall, therefore the returns would be less.

The turbine could have a major breakdown and be out of service for some time.

The life of the turbine could be less than forecasted.

Your stuck with Octopus Energy for at least 1 year after it goes operational and maybe forever if no other Energy company wants to participate in the scheme.

You can get a similar and less risky tax free return in you invest in an existing windfarm investment company and keep the investment in an ISA.

The buying and selling of some or all of your share may not be as simple as it sounds, for example, if it turns out to be a good investment, there will be more buyers than sellers and vice versa.

Yes very interested, I did have a quick skim of the website and will look in depth later, do you know if 120% is the limit, or if say I had 50k to invest it would be allowed?? The reason I ask is that we have just liquidated one of our companies which was always going to be my pension fund, and it would be cool to use it for something green.

Desp

The 120% limit isn't there anymore as far as I know? I have also went into Kinlochbervie Hydro Turbine which is at the site clearance stage through the Highland community energy society, its a 4% return and a more traditional (!) investment with regard to the returns. Also solar thru FTSE 250 listed FSFL, TRIG & NESF and GSF (Gore street energy fund) for storage, dare I say it for Wind Turbine i'm also in SSE. I do believe in eggs across many baskets to spread the risk.

https://hces.coop/kinlochbervie/

Of them all FTSE 100 SSE has been most consistent performer even with the div cut a years or so back when they parted out a part of the company.

spread-tee wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:55 pm Yes very interested, I did have a quick skim of the website and will look in depth later, do you know if 120% is the limit, or if say I had 50k to invest it would be allowed?? The reason I ask is that we have just liquidated one of our companies which was always going to be my pension fund, and it would be cool to use it for something green.

Desp

Yes the 120% limit is still there, but as I indicated if you buy up to 6999kWh expected generation, which is 2.619kW of the windfarm and costs around £4536 I don't think any further evidence is required. For example, as I was over the limit, I had to explain that my partner has been on furlough for over a year, therefore the EV has not been used as much as normal, I also have an immersun diverter to storage heaters which I would boost in winter on the cheap rate so my usage will more than it has been over the past year. I had tried this two winters ago but was too expensive compared with gas, but with the rebate its worth it, therefore I will use more leccy and less gas, therefore further reducing my carbon footprint.

So you can give reasons why you want to buy more than 120% of what you are currently using, like I am buying an EV or fitting a heatpump, etc, but £50k is going to need some serious evidence, like I run a steel smelter or a fleet of EVs, etc.

I spoke with them some months ago as they wanted some feedback. They explained that the biggest obstacles were the Financial Services Authority because some people were investing like £100k or more into other so called "Community schemes" and evading tax. Tax avoidance is legal (like an ISA, Domestic FITs, etc) but tax evasion is not.

But in any case its just too risky to put 50k into this, i.e. a single turbine.

The following are the greenest investments in my pension portfolio, they are all quoted investments on the London Stock Exchange.
I have listed them in order of their market capitalisation size, it is a direct copy of what I posted on the old website about 6 months ago so the company sizes may have changed a bit since then.

Investment / Code / Company Size
Renewables Infrastructure (TRIG) £2,237m
iShares Global Clean Energy ETF (INRG) £1,689m
Greencoat UK Wind (UKW) £1,977m
Impax Environmental Markets (IEM) £1,118m
GCP Infrastructure Investments (GCP) £969m
John Laing Environmental Assets (JLEN) £629m
Next Energy Solar Fund (NESF) £627m
Foresight Solar Fund (FSFL) £620m
SDCL Energy Efficiency Income (SEIT) £571m
Bluefield Solar Income Fund (BSIF) £521m
Gresham House Energy Storage (GRID) £389m
Octopus Renewables Infrastructure (ORIT) £376m
US Solar Fund (USFP) £268m
Ecofin Global Utilities (EGL) £175m
Gore Street Energy Storage Fund (GSF) £82m
Premier Miton Glb Renewables Trust (PMGR) £27m


EDIT - I have since added Ecofin US Renewables Infrastructure (RNEP) £124m (it only started about 6 months ago but gives you exposure to the US dollar for currency diversity)

Been a busy week and I was planning on asking about Ripple so thanks for sarting this topic.

I have filled in the request for details a couple of weeks ago and even had a reply ( probably automated ) from
CEO Ripple Sarah Merrick <info@rippleenergy.com>
Sarah
Founder and CEO, Ripple

I dont fall into the catagory of most users as I dont have battery storage and only have a combi boiler.
But checking the probable discounts available if Ripple or Octopus Energy provide my energy it looks worth while.

My problem is I can only see the generic energy prices from both providers so can anyone give me some acurate prices please.
Currently on British Gas via Money Supermarket but it runs out in Feb and looking at the rise in energy prices its time to sign up as supply can be defered.

Thanks for that information Nowty, I've got a couple of years to work something out but it would be great to have a green pension portfolio similar to yours. It would also be great to get that inverter you let me have working but I am short of round tuits?

Sped

ATB

ceisra wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:54 am I dont fall into the catagory of most users as I dont have battery storage and only have a combi boiler.
But checking the probable discounts available if Ripple or Octopus Energy provide my energy it looks worth while.

My problem is I can only see the generic energy prices from both providers so can anyone give me some accurate prices please.
Currently on British Gas via Money Supermarket but it runs out in Feb and looking at the rise in energy prices its time to sign up as supply can be defered.

The problem is the prices vary depending on where you live. For example, if I do a comparison dual fuel fixed rate comparison search where I live on the south coast, Octopus is way down the cheapest list. but if I do the same for my Parents up north, then Octopus is about the third cheapest.

The current cheapest tariff's are variable rate but that suggests prices are likely to rise in the near future as all commodities are currently doing. One good thing with Octopus is there is no exit fee, so if you sign up to a fixed rate , you can still change for free if prices actually drop. I notice some other companies have been increasing their exit fees lately.

I know companies make it difficult to actually look up the actual unit rate and standing charges but they are able to find, just takes a bit of time looking. But if you are going for Ripple, and doing a deferred supply change, then your just going to have to accept whatever they are offering in the future. But remember Ripple is a long term thing, so you might not have batteries now, but in 5 years time you might. Whether the Octopus "Go" tariff is still available in years to come, who knows.

But I think there are going to be some big changes over the coming years, there is already going to be an increased standing charge for everyone to pay for network upgrades, OFGEM have already announced it a couple of years ago after they did a consultation. But its introduction has been delayed and phased in two parts because of COVID. Then there is talk of transferring some of the green levies on leccy to gas to even up the prices per kWh. Then there might be additional carbon taxes added to gas to even it up even further. There is also talk about changing council taxes where you get a discount if your home is more energy efficient. There maybe costs per vehicle miles travelled to offset the loss of fuel tax and duty as EVs replace ICE vehicles.

The green bandwagon is finally rolling and people have got to wake up and smell the coffee.

spread-tee wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:32 am Thanks for that information Nowty, I've got a couple of years to work something out but it would be great to have a green pension portfolio similar to yours. It would also be great to get that inverter you let me have working but I am short of round tuits?

Sped

ATB

I don't want this thread to move away from the "Ripple" wind turbine and turn into a general investment thread. But I have to make clear that my "Green" investment list only accounts for about 25% of my pension fund and are generally low (or no) growth investments as they typically provide between 4% and 7% income as dividends with some inflation protection.

You should not base a pension on such a narrow focus of investments.

My pension investments are broadly based on,

Bond Proxies – 35% (most of these are the green investments and all are generally income generating investments with some inflation protection)
Property – 20% (long term income generating and generally keeps up with inflation)
Investment Trusts – 25% (collections of growth investments, low income, more growth, spread geographically around the world)
Large Single Companies (non AIM) – 5% (generally safer companies, mix of growth and income)
Small Single Companies (AIM) – 15% (much riskier, usually no or very small income, but a few can turn out to have spectacular growth)

I try and stay away from Fossil Fuels, Tobacco, Betting and Military stuff. Booze is OK in my book because I drink some of it. But even I have found some small amounts of the nasties in a couple of Investment Trusts I own. But the amounts of nasties in my total portfolio is probably sub 1% so its the best I can do.

The Lemon Fool forum website is a good place to find free financial info, especially for retirement purposes. Lots of knowledgeable financial people there. It was set up by some like minded folk on the Motley Fool Forum which closed and so they set up an independent one, sound familiar ?. Shame they don't seem to have a topic for Environmental, Social, and Corporate Governance (ESG) investing which seems to be the way companies are increasingly focusing on.

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk

Similar to Nowty in that I have a percentage of green investment in the overall. I have around 12% in green shares/investments/equipment. As my working life was in O&G I have a portfolio weighted towards oil shares. The dividends from these are and have been each 1/4 directed to Solar PV, wind or storage shares. My long term goal is to divest myself completely of the O&G although I am keeping an eye on BP as possibly being true multipower and not just PR.

As I continue to streamline I also channel into Vanguard passive low AMC tracker funds and while not offering the entertainment of the 1/4'ly div hit and reinvestment choice of traditional shares they have been the best performers and are phenomenal for spreading risk in comparison to the single share.

I hope that I can over time buy into further green project as per Ripple & Kinlochbervie. Might even be in Cornish Lithium mines and Icelandic Geothermal eventually. That would be cool. (Did you see what I did there)?

My portfolio is largely about energy, it always was. Just with more of a listen to my conscience now.

SWMBO & I are heading down to North Devon then up into Wales soon. I'm going to have a drive by of the Graig Fatha site if I can find it. If there's a worthwhile photo or two i'll post them.