Carcinogen output of WBS.

[AE-NMidlands]

Arsenic is a carcinogen too...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... waste-wood says
Arsenic found in London air raises fears over use of waste wood as fuel... Many people warming homes with wood from construction sites unaware of health risks, say experts

Arsenic particles are being spotted by scientists in London’s air, as concerns grow that people are increasingly burning waste wood from construction sites while being unaware of the serious health risks.

Dr Anja Tremper at Imperial College London’s air research station in south London tracked January’s data and found arsenic particles in London’s air, especially around the weekend of 2223 when air pollution reached the top index value of 10 on the UK government’s scale.

Tremper said: “This is part of a long-term pattern. When I investigated the pollution sources in the 2019 and 2020 dataset, I also found arsenic among the chemicals from wood smoke.”

Despite clear messages from government and local councils, a survey for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in 2018-19 revealed that about 9% of people who burned wood at home were burning waste wood.

The problem is that construction wood is normally treated with arsenic-based preservatives to protect against insects and fungi. This arsenic becomes part of the ash and smoke when the wood is burned.

etc etc.
A

[Moxi]

Its a problem isnt it, risk pollution induced death over an extended period or go the government route and freeze to death in the winter of 22/23 due to their incompetence............ decisions decisions

Moxi

[AE-NMidlands]

Its a problem isnt it, risk pollution induced death over an extended period or go the government route and freeze to death in the winter of 22/23 due to their incompetence............ decisions decisions
Moxi

not necessarily such an extended period:

In Auckland, New Zealand, scientists have been investigating if people in the city were being exposed to arsenic from wood-heating. Many New Zealanders pride themselves on finding and burning free wood. Despite official warnings, almost 20% of homes routinely burn construction wood. This can lead to airborne arsenic concentrations that are double the UK and EU legal limits.
As part of the research, 30 men were asked to grow beards for two weeks, then shave and collect the hair for analysis. Arsenic in their bodies would be incorporated into their growing beard forming a record of their exposure.
Aside from cigarette-smoking, the biggest factor that affected arsenic in the men’s beards was the frequency of wood-burning smells in their neighbourhood, suggesting that nearby wood-burning was a main exposure route. More arsenic was also found in the beards of men who burned wood offcuts, so arsenic from their wood burner could be a problem too.
The New Zealand study looked at exposure only and not the men’s health. However, the American Medical Association reports an extreme case of arsenic poisoning in family that burned construction wood to heat their home. As well as breathing arsenic-laden smoke, ash and dust from their fire was thought to be a significant exposure route.
Over three years, their symptoms included neurological problems such as blackouts and seizures experienced by young children, as well as skin and breathing problems including the hospitalisation of one child and wintertime hair loss.

[ecogeorge]

hmm .why not ban arsenic compound preservatives then ? what should we do with construction wood/ off cuts ?? etc bury them ?? what happens to the arsenic then ??
Waste wood is a fantastic energy source regardless of where it comes from .........just dont allow lethal chemicals ........
my 2p .
George

[AE-NMidlands]

hmm .why not ban arsenic compound preservatives then ? what should we do with construction wood/ off cuts ?? etc bury them ?? what happens to the arsenic then ??
Waste wood is a fantastic energy source regardless of where it comes from .........just don't allow lethal chemicals ........
my 2p .
George

They are... see https://www.netregs.org.uk/environmenta ... ervatives/
However there is some seriously misguided legislation.
Creosote is difficult to source nowadays because there are so few coke ovens... it was banned because it is carcinogenic... but that depends on absorption/uptake. You don't get it on your hands a second time! so I would argue that one treatment with creosote will last far longer and do less harm overall than dozens of repeat treatments (and replacement of wood) things which are actually more dangerous and will cause more harm.

Just don't burn creosoted wood, ever... It produces a filthy smoke for far longer than you would think possible. I learnt that with a few splints that I (once) used to light a fire, and have suffered the consequences of a neighbour doing it since.

[renewablejohn]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... risk-study

Late to this debate but really wonder why people even read the guardian as their "facts" are easily dismissed as utter garbage with the application of a little common sense. They start by looking at Greece a land still full of traditional open fires and apply the logic to the UK where the enclosed wood burning stove has become the fashion statement. So comparing 20% efficient Greek open fires to 80% wood burning stoves. Nothing like comparing apples with pears. Then a further comparison a wood burning stove to a modern diesel engine. Not just any old diesel engine but one with an exhaust system designed to remove pollutants. So why not make the comparison realistic and instal the standard electrostatic chimney filter to the wood burning stove (Okofen have been producing them for over a decade). Cannot do that as it does not fit with the Guardian agenda for misinformation.

[renewablejohn]

Another observation -

https://www.hetas.co.uk/scientists-revi ... ng-stoves/

Be very careful with this statement that 2 builders bags equates to 2m3 in 99% of cases they will not. There is not a standard for builders bags the smallest can be 0.5x0.5x0.5. the typical bag is not much better at 0.6x0.6x0.6 you can get ventilated log bags at 1.0x1.0x1.0 but are very difficult to handle unless you have a crane offload. I personally us IBC recycled steel crates which contain 1.2m3 loose fill.

[openspaceman]

Then a further comparison a wood burning stove to a modern diesel engine. Not just any old diesel engine but one with an exhaust system designed to remove pollutants. So why not make the comparison realistic and instal the standard electrostatic chimney filter to the wood burning stove (Okofen have been producing them for over a decade).

Trouble with that is the electrostatic filter retails at £1800 last time I looked plus maintenance on top of the chimney and IIRC consume 30W all the time they are running.

I would like one but my only reason for burning logs is cheapness and I would never get a payback in my remaining years.

[renewablejohn]

Then a further comparison a wood burning stove to a modern diesel engine. Not just any old diesel engine but one with an exhaust system designed to remove pollutants. So why not make the comparison realistic and instal the standard electrostatic chimney filter to the wood burning stove (Okofen have been producing them for over a decade).

Trouble with that is the electrostatic filter retails at £1800 last time I looked plus maintenance on top of the chimney and IIRC consume 30W all the time they are running.

I would like one but my only reason for burning logs is cheapness and I would never get a payback in my remaining years.

But if the 1800 is built into the original price of the stove installation and the 30w is provided by the built in Teg on the stove pipe then there should be no problem.

[openspaceman]

That would have doubled the price of my installation but a homemade electrostatic filter with a self cleaning mechanism would be cool. It should only require a battery of tubes and some phosphor bronze brushes a few springs and an electric motor, plus of course the high voltage supply.

As to 30W TEG at even 4% conversion that would require a heat flux of 750W and probably a Delta T of about 300C, which almost certainly means water cooling and some sort of pumping.

My wish is for a wood fired, water cooled Stirling along the lines of the 400W modified Harwell free piston diaphragm design as developed in the 80s by the Irish version of Trinity House for light buoys, it achieved a life of 22000 hours and 6 monthly service interval (mostly to replace propane tanks and re pressurise the helium) and 10% conversion but disappeared from history.