The hidden reason behind high public charge costs

[Joeboy]

My day today,

I charged in Glasgow and then on the way over to Edinburgh . Combined cost of £46. I am charged to get home tomorrow. Used BP pulse both times.

Charge place Scotland at Perth Broxden were all out, full row of red lights. The Tesla network at that site was up and running.

Left home with a full battery, will have done about 355 miles by the time I'm home with about 30 miles left in tank.

That's about 170 miles range bought for £46. I was getting about 3 miles per kWh Winter running. Stick on top the charge at home before departure at a fiver and the trip cost me £51. About £17 of that £51 is being humped by BP (82p per kWh) in comparison to chargeplace Scotland (54p per kWh) who have failed me 3 times out of the last 4 attempts but at least BP were up and running with facilities there too.. I hate to say it but a 350 mile model Y accessing the Tesla network and home charging looks the way to go.

At 30mpg @ £1.39 per ltr that would be £74.81 for petrol.

[John_S]

Without knowing the actual numbers involved, it is difficult to know exactly what is going on.

I always understood that business electricity cost were lower than domestic costs. Bigger customer, more usage, better margins and thus lower rates. Obviously, that changed in 2022 with the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the price limit/subsidiary to protect domestic customers. The price cap is different. That links the domestic price to wholesale electricity costs and, one assumes, it is a fair link. One does not hear many complaints from electricity suppliers that they cannot make a profit out of domestic customers.

I agree with Osprey's point about the VAT difference.

I don't buy all the complaints about huge capital costs. They are similar for the fuel distribution business. Pipelines need repairs and maintenance, tanker fleets need replacing and distribution depots need continual upgrading to new safety and anti pollution standards.

Also, I remember when GridServe was around 30-40p when domestic prices were around 15p (still on a dumb meter then) ie a 15-25p margin, where now the cost 75-85p for rapid chargers is a margin of around 50-60p.

It would be interesting to compare the UK situation to France and other European countries. I get the impression that French rapid chargers are cheaper perhaps 0.5-0.6 Euro and their domestic charges are higher, but I may be mistaken.

[Yuff]

They had free charging for a year until the end of 2024 as well.
No doubt that deal will be back

[MikeNovack]

I do not know how your electricity is billed. But if I describe HERE it might give you an idea what to look at.

Here in MA, although residences do not get charged for power in addition to energy, businesses do pay a power charge, and that is based on the maximum VA at any time in the month (not the average power, but the maximum, and it's VA so reactance of load matters).

So consider a charging station with three "posts" each able to charge at 22 KW. Surely at some time in the month all in use at the same time so the power charge would be for 66 KW. That is on top of the energy charge, which would be so much per KWh. The person charging their car sees the amount they are paying to charge their car and how many KWh they have put in, and not unreasonably divides to get $/KWh and that might look pretty steep compared to what they pay at home. But they weren't JUST paying for the energy. They were are also paying for being able to put that energy in quickly (the power).

If these charging points were big money makers, don't you think there would be a whole lot more of them?

It is why here common at supermarkets, etc. for there to be some FREE low power charging posts and then some expensive high power posts. The supermarket doesn't mind providing gratis to customers a few KWh while they are shopping (at essentially no effect on the POWER part of their bill) but not the fast charger.

[Stinsy]

Supermarkets in the UK used to provide free 22kW AC charging. However it was widely abused by people who did not shop. If you saw a vacant one you wouldn’t have to wait long before a £90k Porsche Taycan plugged in and the driver would get into his wife’s ICEV and drive off. The free 22kW was perfect for Zoe owners, but nothing good lasts forever.

If consumers in the UK were billed for their max demand some people on this forum would be in big trouble!

Businesses in the UK are billed for the energy they consume in kWh and for the “power factor” (ratio between active and apparent power) basically if your reactive power (kVAr) is too high because you have loads of pumps, motors, refrigeration units, etc., you get an unpleasant surcharge on your bill. Some business fit banks of capacitors to help them save money on this. Interestingly EV charging helps in this regard because PFC is built in so if you’re a supermarket with huge refrigerators the EV charging can get your ratio down and help with your bill.

[Stig]

It would be interesting to compare the UK situation to France and other European countries. I get the impression that French rapid chargers are cheaper perhaps 0.5-0.6 Euro and their domestic charges are higher, but I may be mistaken.

French domestic electricity is cheaper than the UK (most countries are) but the standing charge varies according to max. power, i.e. how big a fuse the house has.

[Stinsy]

It would be interesting to compare the UK situation to France and other European countries. I get the impression that French rapid chargers are cheaper perhaps 0.5-0.6 Euro and their domestic charges are higher, but I may be mistaken.

French domestic electricity is cheaper than the UK (most countries are) but the standing charge varies according to max. power, i.e. how big a fuse the house has.

Yeah, the UK has possibly the highest electricity prices in the world:

[dan_b]

Yesterday afternoon it seems we had a visitor at the public site whose car was pulling 21kW - but frustratingly the charging log doesn't say what the vehicle was!

I don't think many BEVs max out at 7.4kW these days. 11kW is standard with some (Porche Taycan, Ioniq 5, and others) capable of 22kW.

Just had a look at the average charging speeds delivered to different vehicles at our public PodPoint charger at the office over the last year.
We have a 22kW 3-phase AC PodPoint.

BMW 530e (hybrid) - 3.3kW
VW Golf GTE (hybrid) - 3.6kW
MG ZS - 6.4kW
Hyundai Ioniq (Windknife model) - 6.5kW
Nissan Leaf E 62kW - 6.6kW
Vauxhall Corsa-e - 6.8kW
Vauxhall Astra-e - 10.3kW
Audi Q4 e-Tron - 11kW
Tesla Model 3 - 11kW
VW iD4 - 11kW
Vauxhall Mokka-e - 11kW
Kia e-Niro - 11kW
Renault Zoe 50 - 18kW

Citroen e-C4 - failed!

[GreenBeret]

I think most supermarket etc. charging should be less about getting a full charge and more about getting a bit of charge or enough to get you home

Nope..why would one settle for doing something you'd never, ever do with a petrol car? That smacks of admitting defeat, insofar as life will be more awkward with electric. Public chargers have to deliver a full charge in less than an hour by 2030, otherwise the new technology feels like one step forward and two back.

[Mart]

Nah, yeah nah!

I charge at home for hours, often on a granny charger. Seems fine to me, and I've never left my car at a petrol station for 14hrs.

Feels like a win win to me, no defeat.

A small top up, at a supermarket, gym, cinema etc, sounds fine to me. And long/slow charging at on-street chargers is fine too, no need for 1hr charging.

BTW Trojan continue to roll out loads of on-street chargers, with 500+ in just one contract with Camden BC.

Trojan Energy to install more than 500 chargers in London borough of Camden