Portable charging leads

[sharpener]

The specially stamped sockets are not regular 13A sockets and are type tested differently - the back facing stamp is in conjunction with COP for proper labeling on he front or nearby to indicate it is suitable so it's a moot point often trotted out by those without the info or not working to best practice.

Car manufactures can say whatever they like and it wouldn't superseded the intentions of 61851, and yes I realise that an external heat pump, metal box outside in the wet drawing 20A is not subject to PEN fault protection so lol.

Ah, missed the reference to EN 61851 in the standard, not very well laid out is it? Is this https://electrical.theiet.org/media/233 ... _final.pdf the current version.

So after 3 pages of discussion, AINUI the BS1363-2 standard which has for >60 years defined sockets that will safely power electric fires and anything else that needs up to 3kW for long periods has become so debased that it has been de facto downrated to 10A, and even for that the mfrs have now to (self-)certify their products are suitable for continuous use(!) In which case why on earth did the standards committee allow mechanically interchangeble plugs for EV charging leads? They could have introduced a new type with a taller earth pin which would have been backwards-compatible, or stipulated a 16A commando plug or Schuko plug which were already in widespread use.

But the mess we are now left with has the public (including me) believing that the "granny lead" can safely be used wherever they fetch up at the end of a journey if there is a 13A outlet there. Try explaining all this to the man across the street who runs an extension lead across the pavement to his EV. I can see people will perhaps be willing to go to some lengths to install new EV charging points that comply, but as for pre-existing 13A power points, not a chance.

Either there is a real danger, in which case there is a need for a big public information campaign (where are the insurance companies in all this?). Or alternatively the fuss is disproportionate to the actual risks in which case it will be perceived as a make-work exercise for the trade.

Why don't you pickup a rollec wall box with the 13A in then it's an easy upgrade path in the future assuming your CU is suitable.

Can't find what you are referring to, can you post a link @Swwils?

[ducabi]

I burnt my 3pin plug socket after first couple days of EV ownership. Then, I did some research, upgraded socket to a metal one and checked wiring and it was ok, not getting much heat but was only used when I was in the garage too. I also go to a mall which allows people charging cars using 3pin sockets and commando sockets, and the 3pin sockets are all smoked.

[AGT]

The specially stamped sockets are not regular 13A sockets and are type tested differently - the back facing stamp is in conjunction with COP for proper labeling on he front or nearby to indicate it is suitable so it's a moot point often trotted out by those without the info or not working to best practice.

Car manufactures can say whatever they like and it wouldn't superseded the intentions of 61851, and yes I realise that an external heat pump, metal box outside in the wet drawing 20A is not subject to PEN fault protection so lol.

Ah, missed the reference to EN 61851 in the standard, not very well laid out is it? Is this https://electrical.theiet.org/media/233 ... _final.pdf the current version.

So after 3 pages of discussion, AINUI the BS1363-2 standard which has for >60 years defined sockets that will safely power electric fires and anything else that needs up to 3kW for long periods has become so debased that it has been de facto downrated to 10A, and even for that the mfrs have now to (self-)certify their products are suitable for continuous use(!) In which case why on earth did the standards committee allow mechanically interchangeble plugs for EV charging leads? They could have introduced a new type with a taller earth pin which would have been backwards-compatible, or stipulated a 16A commando plug or Schuko plug which were already in widespread use.

But the mess we are now left with has the public (including me) believing that the "granny lead" can safely be used wherever they fetch up at the end of a journey if there is a 13A outlet there. Try explaining all this to the man across the street who runs an extension lead across the pavement to his EV. I can see people will perhaps be willing to go to some lengths to install new EV charging points that comply, but as for pre-existing 13A power points, not a chance.

Either there is a real danger, in which case there is a need for a big public information campaign (where are the insurance companies in all this?). Or alternatively the fuss is disproportionate to the actual risks in which case it will be perceived as a make-work exercise for the trade.

Why don't you pickup a rollec wall box with the 13A in then it's an easy upgrade path in the future assuming your CU is suitable.

Can't find what you are referring to, can you post a link @Swwils?

https://electrical-showroom.co.uk/rolec ... -unit.html

[Swwils]

That's the one. They then sell a kit that upgrade it to a true fast charger. It's kind of moot since the supply for even the 13A version would need to met the regs.

It's often deployed as a penny pinch on new build sites where they can claim it was wired for EV charging and then state something like "for future upgrade to fast charger" - often it's done wrong and on a 6mm radial but grouped into a type AC RCD with rest of house any other such "fun" as been talked about here.

It's abit unfair to shield electrical manufacturers since the last 2 versions of 1363-2: 2016 and A1:2018 have had the EV socket type tests in and yes they did consider alternative sockets.

The problems with recommending BS EN 60309-4 style plugs is that the sockets can come in not interlocked or not shuttered versions, the ones that are isolated, shuttered and suitable tend to be pricey; the exterior dust cover doesn't count as they are often snapped off.

I don't think the fuss is disproportionate but what is happening is a situation where you are trying to improve on and change 25 years + of regs and the reality is we are trying to make filling a metal box full of angry pixies that we've tricked into helping us by a cable as quickly as possible safe.

[nowty]

Cheaper alternative here with similar spec. https://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/cus ... 2s1spa.pdf

Cheapest I have seen,
https://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/pro ... 3033309517

Or slightly more expensive from Halfords,
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/tools ... X1EALw_wcB

[sharpener]

https://electrical-showroom.co.uk/rolec ... -unit.html

Unfortunately they are out of stock, and both https://www.electrical2go.co.uk/wallpod ... arger.html and https://www.tradesparky.com/more/electr ... ging-point say it is now discontinued.

A neat idea but at £480 for the conversion kit it is an expensive route to a full charger, and from the listings here https://evonestop.co.uk/products/upgrad ... 7597573167 and here https://www.lampco.co.uk/products/rolec ... pgrade-kit it seems that it may not comply with the smart charging regulations anyway. So the "upgradable" points that have been installed already are now obsolete?

I burnt my 3pin plug socket after first couple days of EV ownership. Then, I did some research, upgraded socket to a metal one and checked wiring and it was ok, not getting much heat but was only used when I was in the garage too. I also go to a mall which allows people charging cars using 3pin sockets and commando sockets, and the 3pin sockets are all smoked.

Thanks for the warning! So after a week's use I took the socket off to have a good look and fortunately it shows no signs of deterioration: there is no discolouration or smell and the screws are still tight after 14 years, AFAIR it was one of a job lot of Contactum sockets from TLC. So as neither the socket nor the car are (or can be) out of doors while charging I am happy with this ATM.

The plug-in Smiths timeswitch is OK as well, have had them apart in the past and the contacts are very substantial. Would prefer not to have this in circuit but the car timeslot charging doesn't do what I want.

Upgrading the MCB in the house CU that feeds the detached garage to be a Type A RCBO is the one thing that seems worth doing, as this will bypass the main Type AC RCD, provided I can get one to fit the insulated Wylex enclosure (new 2008).

No to the purists I am not going to replace the whole thing with a metal one, that would be disproportionate. Eventually I might upgrade the garage cable to allow for a 32A charger and/or a 16A ESS and this would need a separate switchfuse anyway. Meanwhile I might just get the 16A adaptor for the granny lead and fit an interlocked commando socket - which is not much more expensive than a plain socket and DP switch.

[sharpener]

Upgrading the MCB in the house CU that feeds the detached garage to be a Type A RCBO is the one thing that seems worth doing, as this will bypass the main Type AC RCD, provided I can get one to fit the insulated Wylex enclosure (new 2008).

Meanwhile I might just get the 16A adaptor for the granny lead and fit an interlocked commando socket - which is not much more expensive than a plain socket and DP switch.

Update:

As a compromise between cost and charging rate I have now got hold of the 16A adaptor lead for the portable charger that came with the car. This has increased the rate from 2.4 to 3.7 kW and so the car will fully charge in 4 nights not 6. Upgrading to the full 7.4kW will have to wait until I get round to replacing the garden fence between the house and the garage, and the cable which runs along it. Still trying to work out where if anywhere we have got room for a further battery storage system.

Also managed to find a Type A RCBO which fitted the 2008 Wylex board with a small mod to the busbar link, and have put an interlocked commando socket on an existing 16A radial circuit in the garage - so some of the installation at least is now compliant. Logged a request on the DNO's web site (UKPN) but they have not bothered to respond other than the initial automated acknowledgement.

[AGT]

Under £300 gets you a 7kW Cubev charger

[sharpener]

No good on the end of 15m of 2.5mm^2 cable though...

[AGT]

Oops sorry, didn’t realise that was your plan.


My 30metre 2.5mm2 extension lead that’s coiled up
Where the spare wheel would live has been used twice with the granny charger