Hesla anyone (hydrogen Tesla)

[renewablejohn]

Dont worry farmers can always use excess hydrogen

https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-v ... -hydrogen/

[Mr Gus]

Have not watched the jcb / harry video just yet.

[Mart]

Thanks John, really interesting. I suspect for farming, in this example, I've done the classic, and let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

@Dan, further to your comment about space heating, this diagram helps to put the energy demand in context. It uses wind generation just for comparison purposes:

That's an incredibly good diagram.
Is there an equivalent for "renewable H2 in a HFC vs battery electric vehicles - pretty sure there will be?!

Hiya Dan, further to your question, here's another chart, giving slightly different numbers for BEV v's HFCV's, but also has e-fuels. Thought it would be good to post on here, so the images are together if anyone wants to copy them for use elsewhere.

[dan_b]

Superb diagram.

[Mart]

Cheers Dan, thought you'd like it. A lot tougher than the diagram from VW, they had 70-90% for BEV's, v's the 73% by T&E, and for the HFCV's it's down from 25%-35% to 22%.

I suspect the T&E figures are fairer, covering all losses, and would suggest the BEV could reach high 70's if charged from home on PV.

Hopefully the idea of e-fuels, using an ICE, won't carry much weight going forward. Almost certainly a way to extend FF consumption, by selling ICEV's for longer.

[richbee]

Thanks John, really interesting. I suspect for farming, in this example, I've done the classic, and let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

@Dan, further to your comment about space heating, this diagram helps to put the energy demand in context. It uses wind generation just for comparison purposes:

Brilliant diagram - just thinking about the heat pump example - if every country had a similar amount of energy drawn in from the environment by the heat pumps - 47GW in this case, how much would that help in reducing global temperatures in addition to the reduction in CO2 greenhouse gas effect?

[Countrypaul]

Thanks John, really interesting. I suspect for farming, in this example, I've done the classic, and let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

@Dan, further to your comment about space heating, this diagram helps to put the energy demand in context. It uses wind generation just for comparison purposes:

Brilliant diagram - just thinking about the heat pump example - if every country had a similar amount of energy drawn in from the environment by the heat pumps - 47GW in this case, how much would that help in reducing global temperatures in addition to the reduction in CO2 greenhouse gas effect?

Surely nearly all heating produced by heat pumps leaks bck out of buildings etc. into the environment. The net result being that any power used to drive the heat pump is addition heat in to the environment unless it is renewable.

The only savings in terms of reducing global temperatures would simply be those of not heating the environment with fossil fuels.

[Mart]

Yes.

Although in that example, I suppose you add in any CO2(e) additions from the additional RE construction, transmission and H2 production/transmission construction, v's the HP solution.

[richbee]

Thanks John, really interesting. I suspect for farming, in this example, I've done the classic, and let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

@Dan, further to your comment about space heating, this diagram helps to put the energy demand in context. It uses wind generation just for comparison purposes:

Brilliant diagram - just thinking about the heat pump example - if every country had a similar amount of energy drawn in from the environment by the heat pumps - 47GW in this case, how much would that help in reducing global temperatures in addition to the reduction in CO2 greenhouse gas effect?

Surely nearly all heating produced by heat pumps leaks bck out of buildings etc. into the environment. The net result being that any power used to drive the heat pump is addition heat in to the environment unless it is renewable.

The only savings in terms of reducing global temperatures would simply be those of not heating the environment with fossil fuels.

I see what you mean - but if you had a fully electric heating system (not HP), powered by renewables (or a gas or H2 system for that matter), then 70GW of heat would go back in to the environment from the total amount of heating, whereas with HP you only put net 27GW heat back.
- that's in addition to the extra 43GW of electricity needed to be generated to run the heating with associated CO2 if non-renewable sources are used

[Countrypaul]

Brilliant diagram - just thinking about the heat pump example - if every country had a similar amount of energy drawn in from the environment by the heat pumps - 47GW in this case, how much would that help in reducing global temperatures in addition to the reduction in CO2 greenhouse gas effect?

Surely nearly all heating produced by heat pumps leaks bck out of buildings etc. into the environment. The net result being that any power used to drive the heat pump is addition heat in to the environment unless it is renewable.

The only savings in terms of reducing global temperatures would simply be those of not heating the environment with fossil fuels.

I see what you mean - but if you had a fully electric heating system (not HP), powered by renewables (or a gas or H2 system for that matter), then 70GW of heat would go back in to the environment from the total amount of heating, whereas with HP you only put net 27GW heat back.
- that's in addition to the extra 43GW of electricity needed to be generated to run the heating with associated CO2 if non-renewable sources are used

But surely that extra 43GW of renewable electricity is generated from the environment, if PV less sunlight is used for heating the enviroment at that point, but comes back from building heating, similarly if wind - which ultimately comes from sunlight heating the earth...
The use of heatpumps probably means less infrastructure costs (and consequently less CO2 for that) and might allow storage of heat more easily than electrical power but either way the energy for heaing via renewables comes from the environment and returns there. There is no free lunch..