how much energy is wasted driving a petrol car

[Joeboy]

I remember buying cars for fifty.quid back in the day. Carrying out running repairs and trying to get a year out of them. End of life cycling rather that straight to the scrap yard (where they'd be relifed via parts then eventually crushed). It was exactly what I could afford and I did the best I could with them.

No way I could afford the gas car of the day compared to EV today as secondhand. People need to make money for their families. If that's in an 8th hand diesel punto good on em. I personally think that the EV is a significant financial and practical step beyond the majority of working class people. Apologies for terming it as class. Just "my book" and not judging others.

I don't think "bangernomics" works how it used to. Cars made in the last few decades are complex and parts are expensive and difficult to DIY-fit.

Sure you can buy a £1500 diesel Focus if you want, but it'll suffer several £500 breakdowns a year (used parts). Whereas a £5k LEAF will keep rolling saving you hundreds in fuel as well as parts and inconvenience. That isn't to say EVs cannot break down, just that similar vintage, they're much less likely to.

Here is a 200k mile EV reliably chomping motorways:

Several £500 breakdowns in a year? I could as easily say it won't. I'm not splitting hairs though on.the hypothetical scenario. My reality though is a £5k leaf is mileage limited and impractical to charge on a daily basis. Hellish if living in a flat. Hard to use in Winter if you live up a track too...

In this little set of scenarios I'd look for a Fiat panda 4x4 diesel preferably, low mileage. (Two grand ebay).

I'd also say that £5k isn't a small ask and chademo isn't as prevalent, sadly. Not got much to do with OP's original thought right enough...
ICE is a dirty unit indeed.

[Joeboy]

As a note on EV ownership.. We put our one in for it's 40k service on Wednesday. In that 3 year 40k we've had one fault. The 12V battery went dead after 2 years.

During the service they found a couple of worn front suspension arm bushes. Had to order them in. When they took the arms off to replace the bushes they found that the other bush (smaller) on the arm were worn and need replaced as well.

There aren't any. I mean that, it's not an ex stock item coming from somewhere else. There just aren't any of these bushes.

Now waiting for warranty to approve the replacement of both full suspension arms or contact me with a courtesy EV while the bushes are made... This may take a while! We've got a wee ICE Hyunai I20 at the moment I think. It's good, a bit noisy though!

Point being that a look over, software update and washer top up has turned into something else entirely. Great warranty though and a fresh 2 year roadside recovery with the car.

[Mart]

Afuelnd both the EV pro side and the FF side are ignoring a"joint" solution.

Let's begin with the EV. The main issue is range. Not range for every day but the inability of the vehicle to go several hundred miles without LONG breaks. Please keep in mind that I live HERE where the range you might want to go in a day much longer than where most ofd ypu are. Also the cars best small, little haulage capacity. BUT -- they don't ever use any fossil fuel (except where is the electricity coming from? >>

I'm a bit shocked to read that. Maybe pre 2017(ish), but not now.

Several hundred miles, would suggest ~300 miles? Some BEV's can do that without stopping, I did 190 miles yesterday and batt went from 85% down to 12%, and speed was mostly above 85. Even if I wanted to go 300 (I have done 280 with 5% remaining at modest speeds), I would only need at most a brief few minutes of stopping. 400 miles might require a 'proper' 15min stop. Don't see how that's a long stop, let alone a highly misleading 'LONG' break. My bladder won't do 300-400 miles.

You couldn't pay me to do a long haul in an ICEV these days, with all the hassle and NVH that tires you out, v's a relaxing BEV drive.

Small? I got 5 PV panels in the back yesterday. Inverter and panel/rail brackets and bits in the frunk, and no need to use the large underfloor storage in the boot.

FF for leccy, oh come on, not that old anti-BEV chestnut.* Grids are greening a bit more every year, but a petrol and diesel car will always be burning FF's, and emitting localised pollution, especially diesels.

*That was as polite as I could go, and took a lot of self control.

[Stinsy]

Afuelnd both the EV pro side and the FF side are ignoring a"joint" solution.

Let's begin with the EV. The main issue is range. Not range for every day but the inability of the vehicle to go several hundred miles without LONG breaks. Please keep in mind that I live HERE where the range you might want to go in a day much longer than where most ofd ypu are. Also the cars best small, little haulage capacity. BUT -- they don't ever use any fossil fuel (except where is the electricity coming from? >>

I'm a bit shocked to read that. Maybe pre 2017(ish), but not now.

Several hundred miles, would suggest ~300 miles? Some BEV's can do that without stopping, I did 190 miles yesterday and batt went from 85% down to 12%, and speed was mostly above 85. Even if I wanted to go 300 (I have done 280 with 5% remaining at modest speeds), I would only need at most a brief few minutes of stopping. 400 miles might require a 'proper' 15min stop. Don't see how that's a long stop, let alone a highly misleading 'LONG' break. My bladder won't do 300-400 miles.

You couldn't pay me to do a long haul in an ICEV these days, with all the hassle and NVH that tires you out, v's a relaxing BEV drive.

Small? I got 5 PV panels in the back yesterday. Inverter and panel/rail brackets and bits in the frunk, and no need to use the large underfloor storage in the boot.

FF for leccy, oh come on, not that old anti-BEV chestnut.* Grids are greening a bit more every year, but a petrol and diesel car will always be burning FF's, and emitting localised pollution, especially diesels.

*That was as polite as I could go, and took a lot of self control.

I totally agree with you!

It is really strange to hear these anti-EV arguments voiced on this forum. A decade ago it was common to hear people saying that they needed a diesel because they do long journeys. Those people were wrong but it was a commonly held view stoked by FF interests in the media. However it as been many years since I last heard that nonsense. I genuinely didn't think there were people left who thought those things to be true, let alone who'd voice those misconceptions so confidently on this forum. I'm frankly bewildered.

Some people on this thread would be well-advised to watch a few of Bjorn's videos on yoooochoob. He does "1000km challenges" in various EVs. The point isn't to see if they can do 1000km, the point is to see how fast, how comfortable, how efficient, and how quick-to-charge, various EVs are. He finds that some modern EVs go too long between charging and charge too fast for the journey to be comfortable!

I do long journeys in my iD4 and I find that I have more breaks that don't include charging than those that do. It is good to get out of the car and stretch your legs every hundred miles or so. Makes journeys less fatiguing, less stressful, and safer.

This is the furthest I've been without charging:



When I have charged on the road, I've found Instavolt Banbury, Gridserve Exeter, and Glouscter Services to offer excellent facilities, and I've never seen them more than 50% full.

[nowty]

The stats from my Euro EV trip last Sept,
https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... 473#p50473

31 days and 9 Countries.
33 Tesla Supercharging sessions and 2 other non Tesla charging sessions based at hotels.
4923 miles using 1560 kWh which equates to 3.16 miles per kWh.

Only queued at two Tesla charging stations for a short time and experienced a faulty pair of chargers at one Tesla site.


In fact I found that most of the time I did not even have time to finish my coffee and sandwich.

Also had the Tesla 3.5 years now and its never seen the inside of a garage, only maintenance I've done is a single tyre rotation. Its due a second one soon.

[NoraBatty]

I had the choice of buying an EV or a diesel 3 years ago when i needed to go automatic.
I chose a diesel as i know how to work on them and can guarantee a level of reliability from a diesel that i just cant on an ev because i have never owned one.

General maintenance, repair and upkeep of diesels and petrol has been with me since i was little, being forced to stand on a milk crate and answer mechanical questions by my father each weekend when he fettled with the cars we had as kids, to make sure i could fend for myself and diagnose an issue.
Thanks dad
I love the new car. Diesel Mazda cx5, bells and whistles.
It replaced a 2000 reg ford focus that never once broke down, and only needed tyres, wipers and brakes to get it through an MOT in the 22 years i had it, with all servicing being carried out by myself. I cant even remember ever changing a blown bulb in the thing.
In my opinion, the only thing that will go wrong with a 20 yr old car that has been looked after, is the electrics as they degrade over time and are not part of the service schedule.
Out of the multiple friends i have helped with breakdowns, 90% has been due to electrical faults on old wiring. Rarely any mechanical issues, especially true on diesels. They just keep going.

I wouldnt know where to start with an EV maintenance schedule in comparison, and it would be a learning curve to say the least. From what i read in this thread, it sounds as if electrical maintenance is still largely ignored for EVs, although that may just be owner ignorance of service schedules (in the true meaning, not insulting meaning) , for the presumption that an electric drive train will not break down.
Anything that moves, can and will break. It is just a matter of time, as is the degredation of wiring.

That said, i do regret not getting an EV. I love my car, and would not want to part with it, but if it was Electric, it would be the cherry on top given i am now work from home, rarely use the car now and onoy for less than 50mile round trips and have rarely ventured out on those cold snowy days i feared an EV wouod not cope with anyway.
My OH doesnt drive. Hes a hardcore cyclist and cycles through anything, so car is only used when i am fit and able.

[Stinsy]

I had the choice of buying an EV or a diesel 3 years ago when i needed to go automatic.
I chose a diesel as i know how to work on them and can guarantee a level of reliability from a diesel that i just cant on an ev because i have never owned one.

General maintenance, repair and upkeep of diesels and petrol has been with me since i was little, being forced to stand on a milk crate and answer mechanical questions by my father each weekend when he fettled with the cars we had as kids, to make sure i could fend for myself and diagnose an issue.
Thanks dad
I love the new car. Diesel Mazda cx5, bells and whistles.
It replaced a 2000 reg ford focus that never once broke down, and only needed tyres, wipers and brakes to get it through an MOT in the 22 years i had it, with all servicing being carried out by myself. I cant even remember ever changing a blown bulb in the thing.
In my opinion, the only thing that will go wrong with a 20 yr old car that has been looked after, is the electrics as they degrade over time and are not part of the service schedule.
Out of the multiple friends i have helped with breakdowns, 90% has been due to electrical faults on old wiring. Rarely any mechanical issues, especially true on diesels. They just keep going.

I wouldnt know where to start with an EV maintenance schedule in comparison, and it would be a learning curve to say the least. From what i read in this thread, it sounds as if electrical maintenance is still largely ignored for EVs, although that may just be owner ignorance of service schedules (in the true meaning, not insulting meaning) , for the presumption that an electric drive train will not break down.
Anything that moves, can and will break. It is just a matter of time, as is the degredation of wiring.

That said, i do regret not getting an EV. I love my car, and would not want to part with it, but if it was Electric, it would be the cherry on top given i am now work from home, rarely use the car now and onoy for less than 50mile round trips and have rarely ventured out on those cold snowy days i feared an EV wouod not cope with anyway.
My OH doesnt drive. Hes a hardcore cyclist and cycles through anything, so car is only used when i am fit and able.

On most EVs the only service item is the pollen filter and the wiper blades.

The rear brakes on my iD4 are designed to last the life of the vehicle and are non-serviceable. Many people are getting 150k miles out of a set of front pads. There is no engine oil, the coolant is "lifetime".

You boldly called other forum members "ignorant". I'm interested in understanding what servicing you imagine EVs require?

[AGT]

Nearly 4 years EV owner here and the household also has the same make of car in the diesel version for SWMBO, that’s 7 years old, more miles down in the EV as it’s an easier drive, just point it in the right direction.

[Mart]

Also had the Tesla 3.5 years now and its never seen the inside of a garage, only maintenance I've done is a single tyre rotation. Its due a second one soon.

Just over 3yrs for ickle TiMmY, and our only non leccy expenditure was £45 for the MOT. No issues, other than a couple of punctures.

No problems with the 2018 IONIQ we had for 4.5yrs (passed on to sister), but that did have scheduled servicing costs and MOT. And 4 new tyres when the originals started to perish, but they were nearly at minimum depth too.


I watched that RSymons vid about the high mileage Tesla recently, and would recommend the earlier one, where they went over all the work and costs it needed (not much). They even estimated the fueling costs, based on the record of kWh's charged from AC and DC. From memory I think it was ~£8k, v's an estimated £28k for a comparable diesel at ~50mpg.

EVERYTHING WRONG with my HIGH MILEAGE "21 Tesla Model 3! | Battery health and other issues!

[NoraBatty]

On most EVs the only service item is the pollen filter and the wiper blades.

The rear brakes on my iD4 are designed to last the life of the vehicle and are non-serviceable. Many people are getting 150k miles out of a set of front pads. There is no engine oil, the coolant is "lifetime".

You boldly called other forum members "ignorant". I'm interested in understanding what servicing you imagine EVs require?

I most certainly did not.
Look up the word ignorance, then read the bracketed comment after what i said.

You can try and twist that, or you can see it how it was worded, specifically to avoid this type of BS.

A quick google tells me that an iD4 service schedule is indeed more than just a pollen filter change, and that the pads are replaceable. This ignores the fact the iD4 is not the sole EV on the road, and others will differ in service items and scheduling, but you can add suspension, tyres, lights and battery to your list as a bare minimum of servicable items.