camelot-forum.co.uk

7 x Canturbury based "Bird" e-scooters have faced the well thought out wrath of the angle grinder.

Seems like some "worst class" daily mail incensed madness, hope it doesn't spread.

There is reportage on this, but the above info is about as far as it go's , so no link necessary.

While I'd never support vigilante action or damaging someone else's property, the scooters are a menace. Motorised transport and pedestrians shouldn't share the same space. It seems that a small number of people using electric scooters manage to dissuade a large number of people from walking.

If it as two wheels and a motor, it is a motorbike and the requisite taxes, registration, and liscensing should apply.

Earlier in the year, near to where my parents live in the north of England there was a very nasty incident and a 25 year old man has been charged with murdering a 20 year old e-scooter rider on the pavement by driving at him with a van.

I also don't advocate riding an e-scooter on a pavement but a death sentence is a bit over the top.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-l ... e-56049836

Nowty.

Notice in the papers how riding on the pavement tends to give you a warning, whereas confiscations tend to be riding on the queens highway? (hole strewn roads)

This is about as up to date as you'll find for E-scooters & the like, the EU looking into legalising under

https://www.18sjs.com/e-bikes-e-scooters-law-need-know/ (a good read)

this bit..

One potential forthcoming change is that the European Parliament has proposed an amendment to the Motor Insurance Directive15, primarily to narrow the liabilities of insurers following Vnuk. The proposals also involve redefining ‘motor vehicle’, restricting it to vehicles over 25kg, that can travel more than 25kph and operate ‘in traffic’. PLEVs would specifically be excluded from the definition. The implications could be profound if these changes are implemented – the primary change being that it would be left to member states to legislate as to the legality and use of PLEVs. The reasoning behind the amendments is clear:

“According to the case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union, in principle all existing and new motor vehicles fall within the scope of Directive 2009/103/EC. However, particularly with new types of vehicles, such as electric bicycles, electric scooters and Segways, this does not seem to be absolutely necessary. They are much smaller and have a lower maximum speed, so their damage/injury potential is not so great. The undifferentiated application of compulsory insurance seems disproportionate, especially given the need to promote the development of new alternative modes of transport, which occupy less public road space and are more environmentally friendly. This Directive should therefore apply only to those vehicles which under Union law have to satisfy safety requirements as a condition for approval. Of course, accidents may also occur when such vehicles are used, so that Member States should be free to adopt or maintain at national level rules which also provide for liability insurance for vehicles which are not subject to type approval16.”

In order to be implemented into domestic law, the 1988 Act would have to be updated to reflect the content of the Directive. The amendment to the Directive is not likely to take place before 2021, by which time the withdrawal agreement with the EU might be fully negotiated and alignment with European law might not be required. There is little to suggest that further departure from the Directive will take place, at least in the medium term.

A potential long-term consequence of both the proposed amendment and of Brexit is that e-scooters and PLEVs will, in due course, be able to be used on British streets without the need for insurance. In the meantime, the UK government has shown a willingness to broaden the scope of PLEV usage.

If an injury arises out of use of an e-bike, there is no automatic recourse against an insurer or the MIB, much like if a claimant was struck by a normal cyclist. Riders may well be covered by their home insurance policy, but this is uncommon.

Stinsy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:34 pm.
It seems that a small number of people using electric scooters manage to dissuade a large number of people from walking.

If it was two wheels and a motor, it is a motorbike and the requisite taxes, registration, and liscensing should apply.

And MORE than a small number deem pushbikes, ebikes, motor scooters & motorbikes too dangerous to allow a kid / teen/ adult on the road in anything less destructive than a car because "cars driven fast & badly" & the fragility of the human body in contact with those cars coming down to dwindling odds of getting from a-b safely, without fear of harassment or worse.

Have you got figures to back up the statement 're small numbers of alt transport users are discussing a large number of people from walking? #banthiskillercraze

It's not a level playing field.
Plenty of short car trips do exactly the same (stopping people walking) you have yet to bring that to the table.


Did you not read the full linked piece re motorbikes? ..under 25kg. ..and you want to reclassify ebikes as motorbikes !?
think on it a bit more maybe stinsy.

I do want to classify e-bikes as motorbikes. They’re bikes with a motor.

I do a bit of MTB, I’m happy to be overtaken by someone fitter or more skilful than me, but when I’m on the granny ring about to vomit up my lungs and some idiot on a motorbike tears past be at 25mph I just know I’m going to see him later on tieing up NHS resources.

On the road too. E-bikes accelerate faster than the rider often has skill to deal with and plenty go faster than they’re allowed. Like I say, it is a bike with a motor, so why isn’t it a motorbike with the accompanying licence, insurance, registration, etc.?

Stinsy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:34 pm
If it as two wheels and a motor, it is a motorbike and the requisite taxes, registration, and liscensing should apply.

But apparently you do want 2 wheels & a motor classified as a motorbike., you said it clear as day.

I recommend to read the law pertaining to what classified as an ebike, before reading the link given in this thread to understand a bit more as to the way low carbon transport is going to have to change (again with classification that we will most likely mirror to that of the eu).

Urban environs 15 mph gets you places in the close proximity of cityscapes, in the countryside, the 15mph main road helps but could be faster still, longer distances covered, taking us to two thirds that of the typical minimum speed cars are typically signed up to by licensing then ignored when driving through a village

Please restrict car speeds therefore.Same

On another front: please try getting on public transport Bus with an ebike (non folding), or a train with a mountain bike with slightly wider tyres (There are many different tyre types) coming back from Bristol the train couldn't accommodate my bike, luckily I had para-cord on me & tied it on upright along with brute force.

You can't get on many buses (tried a few) you are presumed to be within a few miles of where you need to be (short distance mentality) ..whereas little to no problem collapsing the compact design of an escooter as part of a travel plan to use it within the town / city you are on public transport to get to.

Stinsy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:21 am I do want to classify e-bikes as motorbikes. They’re bikes with a motor.

I do a bit of MTB, I’m happy to be overtaken by someone fitter or more skilful than me, but when I’m on the granny ring about to vomit up my lungs and some idiot on a motorbike tears past be at 25mph I just know I’m going to see him later on tieing up NHS resources.

On the road too. E-bikes accelerate faster than the rider often has skill to deal with and plenty go faster than they’re allowed. Like I say, it is a bike with a motor, so why isn’t it a motorbike with the accompanying licence, insurance, registration, etc.?

What speed are you doing?
(I've come off a bike at 5 mph due to slick autumn leaf for & grimey roads (initiating a turn, then again at a T-junction from a stand still),

I've also travelled safely at 20mph or more on a flat road, or going uphill maintaining 13 mph due to power assistance meaning I don't veer out into the road due to losing the uphill fight as per non power assisted bikes as speeding (or not) cars approach.

Do you wish to tackle your statement again please, car drivers doing the same, "accelerates faster than the *DRIVER* often has the skill to deal with, & plenty go faster than allowed, ..pretty much all your words bar "driver"

Parity please, or we mandate rest stops & radiography for all drivers to the in with ev charging breaks..yeah right (I can hear the pant hoots at the daily fail now)

Mr Gus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:36 am

Stinsy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:21 am I do want to classify e-bikes as motorbikes. They’re bikes with a motor.

I do a bit of MTB, I’m happy to be overtaken by someone fitter or more skilful than me, but when I’m on the granny ring about to vomit up my lungs and some idiot on a motorbike tears past be at 25mph I just know I’m going to see him later on tieing up NHS resources.

On the road too. E-bikes accelerate faster than the rider often has skill to deal with and plenty go faster than they’re allowed. Like I say, it is a bike with a motor, so why isn’t it a motorbike with the accompanying licence, insurance, registration, etc.?

What speed are you doing?
(I've come off a bike at 5 mph due to slick autumn leaf for & grimey roads (initiating a turn, then again at a T-junction from a stand still),

I've also travelled safely at 20mph or more on a flat road, or going uphill maintaining 13 mph due to power assistance meaning I don't veer out into the road due to losing the uphill fight as per non power assisted bikes as speeding (or not) cars approach.

Do you wish to tackle your statement again please, car drivers doing the same, "accelerates faster than the *DRIVER* often has the skill to deal with, & plenty go faster than allowed, ..pretty much all your words bar "driver"

Parity please, or we mandate rest stops & radiography for all drivers to the in with ev charging breaks..yeah right (I can hear the pant hoots at the daily fail now)

You are missing the point.

"But car drivers" is irrelevant.

My point is: If it has a motor you should have: training, a licence, insurance, registration, etc. I think e-bikes/e-scooters should be treated as motorbikes. That is what they are. End of story.

Screw that bias stinsy it's just plain wrong.

So you didn't read how ebikes came to be then?
You appear to want to make only the most expensive stuff (like cars) acceptable, for those who can afford it & six the rest as it were.
With homes getting smaller, off road car spaces rarer you are driving" people out of the mobility market & reducing employment opportunity potential

My ebike & regular ones already have insurance, factoring in other low speed forms is pretty much a shoe in ADAPTATION of the pre existing ones for push bikes to work for more e-mobility.
Again read that link.

Licences, training & insurance don't stop car drivers motorcyclists & the rest of the collective being ****s & doesn't serve to discourage driving without valid licenses & insurance either. (weekly news reportage on that in many local rags, yes) !?
The base comparison we have are pre-existing behaviours of drivers, so comparison are valid.

What is your actual experience riding both an escooter, and latterly an ebike, we're either nodded or standard out the box?