camelot-forum.co.uk

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science ... lt-reactor

There’s a lot to digest here - not least the bit about it being a thorium molten salt reactor and that China has one generating electricity on the grid already?

Nuclear powered shipping has been tried and doesn;t work for a few reasons:

1) You cannot insure against disaster.

2) The cost of maintenance is prohibitively expensive (overshadows fuel savings).

3) Refuelling might be infrequent, but involves a 6-12 month drydock every 5 years.

Most of the old nuclear icebreakers were converted to oil and of the few nuclear powered cargo ships I thin only one is still in service. Even military ships (such as aircraft carriers) where insurance isn't a concern are shifting from nuclear to diesel-electric.

This is another one of those technologies that makes sense in the mind of a 14 year old boy but doesn't work out in practice.

EDIT: Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmorput

Don't read much into this: it's the maritime equivalent of a concept car, unveiled at a trade show to get attention.

Dont suppose people would be too happy to see it docking in place like London or Rotterdam either. Far to risky and likely see the queue of protesters clearly from Adelaide.

resybaby wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:58 am Dont suppose people would be too happy to see it docking in place like London or Rotterdam either. Far to risky and likely see the queue of protesters clearly from Adelaide.

I too can imagine the protests manned by those who learned everything they know about nuclear energy from comic books. I'd like to think this sort of technology could be dismissed on logical grounds rather than irrational ones. However it is certain that some countries would ban nuclear-powered vessels from their ports/waters on irrational grounds...

I get all that - the thing that was of biggest interest was the point about it planned to have a thorium molten salt reactor, not the usual uranium military-sub-derived stuff? And that they have a thorium reactor generating commercially? People have been talking about thorium for decades as a "safer, cheaper" alternative - but it never seemed to go anywhere?

dan_b wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:43 am I get all that - the thing that was of biggest interest was the point about it planned to have a thorium molten salt reactor, not the usual uranium military-sub-derived stuff? And that they have a thorium reactor generating commercially? People have been talking about thorium for decades as a "safer, cheaper" alternative - but it never seemed to go anywhere?

Doesn't say that: it's a 2MW (thermal?) reactor located in the Gobi Desert, presumably at a research station.

You're right I read too much between the lines.

Found a bit more detail here

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Arti ... en-salt-re

Thorium is potentially a better means of power generation than a uranium/plutonium reactor - it is intrinsically safer than the current technologies in operation. Turn it off and it stops. No/less potential for thermal runaway and cools rather than needing to be cooled.

The daughter products, I believe, are far shorter lived and although the reactor requires neutrons to get/keep it running, it does not require these at chain-reaction levels. Very little Plutonium/Uranium waste to look after for the next million years is the main plus for the technology - and likely Thorium is a more common element than Uranium?

https://www.world-nuclear.org/informati ... ctors.aspx

More detail regards the various formats, fuels and operating features of MSR's.

From what little has been said about the Chinese MSR it sounds like they are running it as a breeder rather than a burner, but that opinion could all change with the release of more details so maybe better to just follow the science now rather than the intent.

It certainly doesn't read from the current articles that they are planning to run it as a transmutation reactor to burn up waste but again not really enough detail to confirm that either.

Moxi