camelot-forum.co.uk

https://go.hitachirail.com/l/993992/202 ... hi_Rail___

With potential to be used on end of line non electrified line.

Or we could just apply 100 year old technology which is more cost effective over time and gives better results. I despair sometimes!

i hope your not suggesting coal and steam

Paul_F wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:31 pm Or we could just apply 100 year old technology which is more cost effective over time and gives better results. I despair sometimes!

Hi, could you explain please. I thought this sounded near perfect as a way for these trains to cover those last bits, but wonder if you mean completing the electrification of tracks?

I've no idea which is more cost effective, but interested to learn more.

Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:23 pmi hope your not suggesting coal and steam

Nope!

Mart wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2024 9:52 amHi, could you explain please. I thought this sounded near perfect as a way for these trains to cover those last bits, but wonder if you mean completing the electrification of tracks?

I've no idea which is more cost effective, but interested to learn more.

Good example here: https://gb.readly.com/magazines/rail/20 ... cdf44aa755
Essentially the issue is that trains typically go long distances, with the main line tracks already electrified but small gaps meaning that you get a lot of diesel trains running under the wires. The idea of this solution is that these trains can carry a large battery around under the wires: it's better than diesel, but means the battery really isn't used very much and that makes it an expensive solution - not just the cost of the battery but also the opportunity cost of the passengers or freight which could have been carried instead of the battery. I have exactly the same problem with the "bi-mode" trains that the outgoing government has been pushing for the past few years.

Fundamentally infill electrification is a one-time cost which then pays back for decades to come. Battery hybrid systems is an ongoing cost - it reduces the the upfront cost which is why it's popular with governments, but in the long run it's a lot more expensive and has lower performance. We have known how to do overhead wires at 25kV for 70 or so years now, and nearly all of that time it's been crystal clear it's the correct system for anything but very lightly used branch lines. Unfortunately government accounting rules over that entire time have made it very hard to do it.

Thanks Paul, that makes sense. So whilst I think the battery train idea here is a great solution, for the remaining problems, as you point out, removing 'the remaining problems' would be a better solution overall.

I suppose the good news, is that there are solutions, be they good(ish) or very good.