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I do find Bjorn's videos bizarrely intereresting.
Here he's doing his 1000km challenge in the Ioniq 5 and not only does it coldgate, it also rapidgates. That 800v 200kW charging architecture still has some bugs to iron out I think?



Also watch out for the 2 electric trucks and the flaky Ionity chargers

I personally don’t see why anyone needs to charge faster than 100kW.

By the time you’ve walked to the building, used the toilet, queued at Starbucks, and walked back to your car, you’ve been at the services for 20-30 mins and added 200ish miles of range. I don’t really see what you gain by having the same charge applied in 10mins. You create a whole lot more heat in the batteries charging quicker and this heat must be managed or you risk damaging the batteries.

I feel that marketing folk are pressuring the engineers to implement unreasonable charge rates that are unrealistic and result in people treating their BEVs like ICEVs replacing petrol pumps with DC chargers.

Dumbest thing of course being..

These are based around the perceived expectations of the majority public who have yet to drive & own an EV (otherwise they'd be more relaxed about onward travel, & concerned for their batteries)

Plus a bit of "I can pee higher up the wall than you" branding stemming from the same thing.

It's a bit like the idiots who rode horses into the ground between stables & how "Hobsons choice" came into being.
to service the idiots expectations no matter how unreasonable & uninformed they are.

We've just come back from taking the Smart for a run, pulled up at Aldi to check out the EV chargers there.
An indian guy with a big SUV MG (the awkwardly placed charger model) was saying he thinks he gets 3.7miles per kWh & dropping.
When he saw the tesla fob he said "the more than 300 miles range ones"? ..(sickening) to which I got a bit miffed & said no the SR+ SUB 300 mile one, because it isn't needed for the majority, ..What's the farthest have you gone in this?

Him: Down to London & back
Me: So easily within range of your car too then, & likely that you didn't need to charge in transit right?
Him: Oh no, we charged, it was very expensive, but I really need a big battery for work too.
Me : how far do you go daily then?
Him: about 17 miles
Me:
Me: Wife go's to & along the south coast & back with a pee-stop & a quick top up "just in case of awkward traffic" ..in her SUB 300 mile car, it does of course help not to choose a car with the aerodynamics of a double decker bus when considering range.

(I get miffed at the p155ing contests, where mens deemed level of acceptability & tesla's are involved).

Me: with that amount of travel mate you'd have been fine with a gen 1 leaf.

In the other EV spot (not charging) was a porsche Taycan-thepiss ..which annoyed a outlander PHEV driver no end.

Some day's I hate going out.

I’ve seen a few Taycans in EV charging spots not charging…

Just because you might not "need" faster than 100kW charging, someone else might? I know I certainly made good use of the >150kW charging offered by Tesla Superchargers on my journey to the French Alps last summer - it gets you back on the road quickly, allows you to make longer stints between charges, and crucially, means the chargers are occupied for less time so that they're available for other drivers.

If we all still only had Mk1 Leaf battery range and charging capabilities, there's no way BEVs would be seeing the kinds of market shares you're now seeing in many countries.

Stinsy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:03 pm I personally don’t see why anyone needs to charge faster than 100kW.

dan_b wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:52 am Just because you might not "need" faster than 100kW charging, someone else might? I know I certainly made good use of the >150kW charging offered by Tesla Superchargers on my journey to the French Alps last summer - it gets you back on the road quickly, allows you to make longer stints between charges, and crucially, means the chargers are occupied for less time so that they're available for other drivers.

If we all still only had Mk1 Leaf battery range and charging capabilities, there's no way BEVs would be seeing the kinds of market shares you're now seeing in many countries.

Stinsy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:03 pm I personally don’t see why anyone needs to charge faster than 100kW.

I’m into photography. When digital photography was new marketing folk acted as if “megapixels” was the only important metric. Noise, dynamic range, colour rendition, and a whole bunch of other, more important criteria was ignored.

I’m seeing the same with BEVs. The marketing folk are pressurising the engineers to implement a charging rate that isn’t sensible. The leaf fell into this trap implementing a 50kW charging speed when the battery pack didn’t have the required cooling systems to make this sensible.

The Ioniq 5 similarly has a headline charge-rate that makes for impressive marketing materials. However, in the real world, the charge-rate is disappointing.

In contrast, the e-tron has a much more modest charge-rate boasted about in the marketing materials. But owners report the e-tron achieves and sustains this charge-rate much better than other BEVs.

IMO the Ioniq would have been better if it’d limited charging to 100Kw but achieved this in a wider range of conditions.

Dan, you've got a lot more experience of superchargers than me, but I found that as you get into the 50%+ charge level on the battery, charge rates are down to ~100kW, is that about right?

So the faster charging is essential and beneficial to the fast 'splash and dash' type stops for long trips, like you mention. Also, one of the reasons why Tesla's chargers have such a good reputation and are pushing the BEV image higher, is that you won't have to wait too long, or at all, for a free charger at a supercharger location. That's partly due to them having more chargers, but also critical to high throughput, is the high power of the chargers, so cars are able to charge quickly and then move on, freeing up the charger. If you double the charge rate, then theoretically, you've doubled the charging facilities without expanding the number of chargers, nor the site's footprint.

I used a SC twice back in June, during my Tesla Tour, I only put about 30kWh in each time to minimise cost and get me to my destination(s). That took ~10mins, just long enough for a pee, leg stretch, and a quick drink and some sweeties. Both times charging started at about 200kW (the car was already at about 30%, so didn't hit 250kW) and dropped to mid low 100kW by the end.

All BEVs have a charging curve which is temperature, chemistry and SoC dependent. But the point of it is that it seems like the Ioinq 5 doesn't have good enough thermal management as it is severely limiting its charging potential when outside of a rather narrow battery temperature range.

Here is a comparison of the charging curves that the Model 3 can achieve on "regular" V2 (150kW) and V3 (250kW) superchargers.
So what you might think?


So here's another way of looking at it - time to the desired SoC - which as mentioned above is as much about maximising throughput of the charging stall as it is your actual "have I got time for a wee" time. Rapid charging stalls are a finite resource. And we all know that people don't like queuing at charge points waiting for one to become available.

What size battery was being used? Seemed like an awful lot of recharging operations for a 600 mile fourney.

On Bjorn's 1000km challenges he tries to minimise the overall journey time by doing more frequent, but shorter, charging sessions, such that when the car is charging its always in the fastest part of its charging curve.

That's obviously a bit of an issue if the car is meant to deliver 200kW but keeps throttling to 100kW because it's too hot or too cold.