camelot-forum.co.uk

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:31 pm**

Oops.
I so want to see this vehicle fail. It might knock down the hubris levels around Musk a bit.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesl ... 43690.html

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:40 pm**

Sure I'll never buy a CyberTruck. However if EVs are to proliferate they cannot just be LEAF/Zoe style small eco-cars. We also need unnecessarily big EVs, unnecessarily fast EVs, and slightly silly EVs.

If the only EVs available are the sort of cars a geography teacher might buy, they'll never catch on.

So I'm glad the CyberTruck exists and I do not have any ill-will about it whatsoever.

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:04 pm**

My view is that they only need to produce necessarily big EVs, not the unnecessary chelsea tractors.

How fast is dependent on local restrictions. Little point in 150mph cars on UK roads - but they might be OK on german autobahns, or track days.

Reduced top speed with the same power leads to faster acceleration and I think EVs can accelerate fast enough as it is. Front wheel drive with 200HP is likely too much, but rear wheel drive can better cope with it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:12 pm**

Front wheel drive cars can take 300hp, that's not gat off a Golf GTI. 200hp is plenty for day to day driving though.

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 8:07 am**

Stinsy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:40 pm Sure I'll never buy a CyberTruck. However if EVs are to proliferate they cannot just be LEAF/Zoe style small eco-cars. We also need unnecessarily big EVs, unnecessarily fast EVs, and slightly silly EVs.

If the only EVs available are the sort of cars a geography teacher might buy, they'll never catch on.

So I'm glad the CyberTruck exists and I do not have any ill-will about it whatsoever.

Very true. It's staggering to see how many full size pickups there are in the US (as well as the small (LOL) mid size pickups like what we get in the UK (Hilux, Ranger etc)).

Many of those vehicles only get 10-15mpg. One guy was in the news for saving $60 per day with his Cybertruck, hauling small plant to work sites on trailers. He doesn't do a lot of miles, but its hard work, and he's paying $10/day for leccy, v's $70 for diesel.

These massive BEV's may seem stupid, and I suspect many are, but if they can displace some of the worst FF burners, then the benefits are actually greater ..... in a crazee world like this (or to be more precise, the US).

I'm really quite disappointed with the take up of BEV PU's in the US. I was hoping that this market for gas guzzlers would transition faster. The Cybertruck doesn't seem to be selling as well as hoped, but is already outselling all the other BEV full size PU's put together. I think there's the Rivian R1T, the Ford Lightning, the GM Hummer, and a couple of variants of the Silverado from GM. No BEV version of the Toyota Tundra yet ..... they'll probably build a HFC version first

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 8:25 am**

Mart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 8:07 am
Stinsy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:40 pm Sure I'll never buy a CyberTruck. However if EVs are to proliferate they cannot just be LEAF/Zoe style small eco-cars. We also need unnecessarily big EVs, unnecessarily fast EVs, and slightly silly EVs.

If the only EVs available are the sort of cars a geography teacher might buy, they'll never catch on.

So I'm glad the CyberTruck exists and I do not have any ill-will about it whatsoever.
Very true. It's staggering to see how many full size pickups there are in the US (as well as the small (LOL) mid size pickups like what we get in the UK (Hilux, Ranger etc)).

Many of those vehicles only get 10-15mpg. One guy was in the news for saving $60 per day with his Cybertruck, hauling small plant to work sites on trailers. He doesn't do a lot of miles, but its hard work, and he's paying $10/day for leccy, v's $70 for diesel.

These massive BEV's may seem stupid, and I suspect many are, but if they can displace some of the worst FF burners, then the benefits are actually greater ..... in a crazee world like this (or to be more precise, the US).

I'm really quite disappointed with the take up of BEV PU's in the US. I was hoping that this market for gas guzzlers would transition faster. The Cybertruck doesn't seem to be selling as well as hoped, but is already outselling all the other BEV full size PU's put together. I think there's the Rivian R1T, the Ford Lightning, the GM Hummer, and a couple of variants of the Silverado from GM. No BEV version of the Toyota Tundra yet ..... they'll probably build a HFC version first

Years ago I was talking to some Americans online. They were going on about how great American pickups were. However the truth was that American trucks were terrible.

When we need that kind of tool in Europe we use something like this:

Bigger bed than the American pickups, higher load capacity, better towing capacity, better fuel economy, less servicing (40k mile oilchange interval vs 5k!), much much cheaper to buy, etc., etc.. Literally every metric you could think of the European one was better. Maybe looks-wise the American ones won, but it is supposed to be a work truck. Right?

Sure you can get these people out of their 13mpg 6L cummins pickup. But it won;t be into a LEAF/Zoe clone, it will be another mahoosive and slightly pointless "truck" but this time with electric propulsion. Environmental concerns won't switch them. But they will be switched by better torque, cheaper running costs, and maybe an even sillier design...

Therefore I'm not sure what the CyberTruck haters are trying to achieve?

Saw something online the other day where a woman hated Elon so much she traded her M3 for an iD3. Someone responded "Wait 'till you find out about the guy who founded VW!".

Why does everything have to be a culture war these days?

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:38 am**

Totally agree, but Elon is being a right prat recently. I was annoyed listening to him about CO2 levels, and how it's a concern, but not a problem as the safe levels for breathing CO2 are still far off. YOU DO WHAT? He's clearly an astonishing brain and engineer, so how does he not get the greenhouse effect.

Doesn't help that I opted for a reg plate to show off I had an electric car, and picked the numbers without thinking/importance, only for my sister and Dan, to immediately point out what I'd utterly missed .... I'm driving an EL04 CAR (Elon car).

That said, I do very much get the idea behind the Cybertruck, which is that it can take bumps and scrapes without bodywork being pierced, or repairs needed. Excellent idea, but doesn't truly kick in, I think, till the $60k version comes out, that tradies can afford. Hard to believe, but the average selling price of the ICE F-150 is now around $60k.

Then there's the high sail sides, needed for the aerodynamic gains from the sloped shape (when tonneau is closed). But it gets criticism for making side loading harder. Hadn't crossed my mind, but like the pic you showed, I recently saw comments on an article from Aussie 'Ute' (utility vehicle) drivers, who pointed out that having a flat bed, with fold down sides on all sides, makes for a far more practical vehicle, than a PU. Fair point.

PS - Did you know the original Beetle was a scam? It was shown off as a people's car, and German households were paying a small amount each week, towards getting one, kinda like 'layaway'. But that naughty Mr Hitler, wasn't building Beetles, he was using all the money to fund the remilitarisation of Germany. Turns out he was a right bad one, who'd have thought.

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:09 am**

Mart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:38 am Totally agree, but Elon is being a right prat recently. I was annoyed listening to him about CO2 levels, and how it's a concern, but not a problem as the safe levels for breathing CO2 are still far off. YOU DO WHAT? He's clearly an astonishing brain and engineer, so how does he not get the greenhouse effect.

Doesn't help that I opted for a reg plate to show off I had an electric car, and picked the numbers without thinking/importance, only for my sister and Dan, to immediately point out what I'd utterly missed .... I'm driving an EL04 CAR (Elon car).

That said, I do very much get the idea behind the Cybertruck, which is that it can take bumps and scrapes without bodywork being pierced, or repairs needed. Excellent idea, but doesn't truly kick in, I think, till the $60k version comes out, that tradies can afford. Hard to believe, but the average selling price of the ICE F-150 is now around $60k.

Then there's the high sail sides, needed for the aerodynamic gains from the sloped shape (when tonneau is closed). But it gets criticism for making side loading harder. Hadn't crossed my mind, but like the pic you showed, I recently saw comments on an article from Aussie 'Ute' (utility vehicle) drivers, who pointed out that having a flat bed, with fold down sides on all sides, makes for a far more practical vehicle, than a PU. Fair point.

PS - Did you know the original Beetle was a scam? It was shown off as a people's car, and German households were paying a small amount each week, towards getting one, kinda like 'layaway'. But that naughty Mr Hitler, wasn't building Beetles, he was using all the money to fund the remilitarisation of Germany. Turns out he was a right bad one, who'd have thought.

Yeah! Ordinary German families had a "savings book". Every week they bought a stamp, on the promise that when the book was filled they'd get a Beetle. It was to be the National Socialists' version of the Model T: together with the autobahn network it would democratize personal transportation. However, due to the outbreak of war, no one was ever delivered a car in exchange for a filled savings book.

Interestingly Churchill was on to Hitler from the very beginning. Unfortunately, no one wanted to listen to Churchill's warnings at the time. And nowadays it is trendy to paint Churchill as some kind of villain.

(I fear we have wondered off-topic somewhat...)

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:08 pm**

My view (for what it's worth) is that with Elon insisting on making the CyberTruck ahead of everything else, and Tesla seemingly capable of only creating one new platform at a time, the eventual product that came out has overall harmed Tesla, and the global growth of EVs.

It's such a polarising machine that it has put off a lot of people from buying it at all.
It's so expensive that it's put off a lot of people from buying it at all. But its cost means it's also cannibalised sales from the S/X (which has been left to die in my opinion).
It's so large and angular that it will never be approvable in most large car markets outside of the US/Canada, preventing it actually being sold in volume at all.
Its protracted development and overly complex engineering requirements prevented Tesla from properly developing the Semi (which is still a hand-built prototype), and stopped any development of a "below the 3/Y" Tesla model.

Stinsy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:40 pm Sure I'll never buy a CyberTruck. However if EVs are to proliferate they cannot just be LEAF/Zoe style small eco-cars. We also need unnecessarily big EVs, unnecessarily fast EVs, and slightly silly EVs.

If the only EVs available are the sort of cars a geography teacher might buy, they'll never catch on.

So I'm glad the CyberTruck exists and I do not have any ill-will about it whatsoever.

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:11 pm**

Stinsy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:09 am
(I fear we have wondered off-topic somewhat...)

Well, to pull it back slightly, whilst full size PU's are (I think) a tad overkill in the US, and insane over here (a few personal imports of F-150's etc do happen) ........ the Cybertruck might be an ideal vehicle for invading Poland?

[Too soon?]

Also .... doesn't look like Jaguar is doing a much better job, with their FAB1 rip off.

camelot-forum.co.uk

Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car

Re: Manufacturing problems wiht the clown car