Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

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Mr Gus
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Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#1

Post by Mr Gus »

It's pretty much out of the bag now, but was it all a con?

Briefly, I cannot recall whether I wrote it elsewhere or simply voiced it to a few folk elsewhere at the time.

LONDON-centric project that promised the earth (minutes shaved off from london to the north) with not exactly much use (stops) as a service outside of a few key stops along the route.

A project that the UK pays for as an entirety for the use of the few it seems.

News has been rumbling on that the "Northern Powerhouse" (promises & puffed out chests) is no more, thus london has got its end signed, sealed, delivered for travel but the promised northern connections are not there & nor will be.

A nice way of paring back the reported overspend of the project, I wonder how that will be reported in the future?

Living near a high speed track for much of my life, & having crossing points for locals reduced from manned, to automatic to "removed" (cutting off roads & adding more time than a HS trip saves for every vehicle caught in the crossfire) all in the name of safety, I was rarely able to use the network living outside of the "design element" & sometimes had to resort to going down to london to get on another train to get back home to east anglia (bad on a sunday when the train hold ups mean you actually were meant to get back on saturday ..from scotland)

Thus my view may be deemed tainted, but I could never justify a filthy diesel train (avoided as much as possible) & the electrification of the lines nearby without green power just seemed like riding big diesel still.

I'm now left wondering how far north the prep-work (ripping out eco-systems) has got & what it costs if the HS2 "scheme"(ing) has by sleight of hand accomplished all it ever intended?

What happens now? re-greening? :roll: or simply laying "lesser" !? infrastructure over the same route? ..sell off for crowbarred compulsory purchase to land hedging investors to sell back later?
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Stan
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#2

Post by Stan »

I did think that HS2 had a more widespread purpose after watching the main actor in this video.

Last edited by Stan on Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stinsy
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#3

Post by Stinsy »

I’ve always had problems with HS2.

Firstly, it is mislabelled. It isn’t that fast.

Secondly, there are a whole bunch of bottlenecks in the existing West Coast Mainline. Some modest engineering projects at junctions, along with lengthening a few platforms, and modernising signalling, would deliver similar increases in capacity and reductions in journey times.

If your problem is that you want to pump vast quantities of taxpayer money into the pockets of a few landowners and construction companies then HS2 is the perfect solution.

If you want to increase capacity and reduce journey times, HS2 isn’t the right solution.

If you have money to spend on the railway, project no 1 should be the line between Manchester and Leeds.
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Stan
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#4

Post by Stan »

Stinsy wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:29 am I’ve always had problems with HS2.

Firstly, it is mislabelled. It isn’t that fast.

Secondly, there are a whole bunch of bottlenecks in the existing West Coast Mainline. Some modest engineering projects at junctions, along with lengthening a few platforms, and modernising signalling, would deliver similar increases in capacity and reductions in journey times.

If your problem is that you want to pump vast quantities of taxpayer money into the pockets of a few landowners and construction companies then HS2 is the perfect solution.

If you want to increase capacity and reduce journey times, HS2 isn’t the right solution.

If you have money to spend on the railway, project no 1 should be the line between Manchester and Leeds.
The guy in the video gives very convincing reasons why it is exactly the right solution to increase capacity. “three railways for the cost of one”.
Ken
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#5

Post by Ken »

That video is brilliant, thanks Stan.
By removing the fast non stopping trains from the present lines it increases the capacity of the present lines by the order of 2-3 times. It seems a no brainer to me when argued like that as afterall the present lines (and Birmingham station) are at max capacity and something needs to be done. I for 1 have faith in our engineers its just a pity we need the gov money.

People just moan - the Newbury by pass, Winchester BP, channel tunnel, EVs etc etc........ Nobody would want to turn the clock back now.

What is it about people that raise objections to progress all the time- sad really.

Ken
Mr Gus
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#6

Post by Mr Gus »

Personally, as someone living on an island, I enjoyed the ferry operations that used to go from Harwich to Holland (esp the night crossing)
Not so keen on the channel crossing dover - calais, that always smelt of sick, (school trips likely)
The channel ferry used to be many kids first experience of bigger boat travel / abroad (I found out) so more an issue of cleanliness & puking off the back of someone elses puke than the load / unload process.

Yes the channel tunnel is good "for what it is" (but our govt didn't want to buy back into that infrastructure again a few months back) It can still make for awkward onward travel elsewhere, deeper into europe, satisfying toll road infrastructure by putting ICE back onto the roads again (& yes french roads are expAnsive)

I'd have preferred the north had better connectivity in the first place as many down south link in with Manchester & nowhere else unless you lead them by the nose to it.

Thank goodness kids go to university in cities far from home or else we'd be even less clued up on what is up north.
When I worked in London the reply was often "What the hell would you want to go up there for" !? (meaning vaguely north) sadly they weren't joking, & those that did venture elsewhere invariably gravitated to Manchester. (the good rail connection to back home) it used to make me shake my head, maybe it was easier access to feed recreational drug habits.

Newbury bypass? we used to drive down that way alot, my mate, a blue chip brand manager & fellow country boy but also a petrol head, used to wince & comment, we both felt we'd prefer to preserve the environment & change the driving process, I wince to this day when I pass that area, if stuck in traffic that's when i'd field calls off him for a chat & our own sales teams at my work (early days of mobile phones)

There was until recently plenty of potential for Peterborough station to expand modernise & improve access in the scheme of things, that opportunity with station owned land was p155ed away, likely better to speed through than stop, yet it is a good interchange for what has become the north south main line.
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#7

Post by Tinbum »

Stinsy wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:29 am If you have money to spend on the railway, project no 1 should be the line between Manchester and Leeds.
What about Hull , about the 20th largest city in England/UK?? The line electrification stops/starts at Selby. Hull Trains have to run special diesel electric trains for their service to London. It's appalling :( .
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Stinsy
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#8

Post by Stinsy »

Tinbum wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:29 pm
Stinsy wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:29 am If you have money to spend on the railway, project no 1 should be the line between Manchester and Leeds.
What about Hull , about the 20th largest city in England/UK?? The line electrification stops/starts at Selby. Hull Trains have to run special diesel electric trains for their service to London. It's appalling :( .
Yeah, bi mode trains are an indication of a railways system with no overarching plan...
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Mr Gus
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Re: Did we all get caught out by a big con? (HS2)

#9

Post by Mr Gus »

More HS2 problems as hundreds of staff sent home, plant lined up to the side one of the big contractors (in trouble & looking for investors) went into receivership today.
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