Europe looks ahead...

[Mr Gus]

For me the beauty of a well managed rail network is best represented with JR in Japan.. would go back just to ride the rails again. The Best.

[billi]

Not going to happen for a long time billi, 2015 migrant stream breaking down fences & demanding entry marked a massive change point in European psyche in so many ways.
The Eu's actions on Poland's border gathering is waiting to be seen, & either way will end badly within an already fractured society under financial stress because it will cause anger every which way.locally & internationally.

No idea , what your intention nor your message was , Mr Gus !

I would get 9000 Euro support, to buy an electric car now in Germany ( and remember that country"s location is next to Poland )

I just wish , they could stuff those funds into a European public transport idea ,

Not much to do with Poland , but be my guest ill find a train for your visit

Puplic transport just needs, to be close to free , to avoid individual cars , on that mass bases, we have now

I can do from Frankfurt to Paris for 40 Euro 570 km distance in under 4 hours , by train , sure i need to get to Frankfurt first and find a (girl)-friend in Paris to show me around ... but i guess its not about tourist travels ,

[Mr Gus]

Fact Billi, if you think anything less then you don't know me or didn't read it properly to be honest.
(though 3.30 in the morning is not great for a clear head)

Getting train infrastructure sorted as a grand european plan = expensive.

HS2 has left other industries & suppliers empty handed (wood for instance) & prices through the roof.
A europe wide mega project does far more than that meaning more shortages or environmental concerns as to forest cover disappearing at the behest of the union.
Decarbonising must be done beyond a mere operating level, but in build too (first thing naysayers attack)
Polands border problem is an EU problem as it is an act of aggression using migrants risking further fracturing of the "union"

Fracturing union is a strength to Russia & a couple of other disruptors, Polands rumbling leanings are anti EU, affecting any action required, any mega project hinging upon co-operation & timeframe to update & create a fast working result requires full involvement & investment whilst dealing with everything else on its plate any given day, something that poland COULD use as financial leverage to stay in & quiet(er)

The EU always has had & always will have ego's pulling & pushing their own agenda (look at the UKs pushy relationship & demands, & more so now we've left, stupidity, arm flexing threats & punishment very visible, making deals for compliance & increased costs a certainty, the timescale to upgrade & prove its worth is ammunition aplenty for neersayers & lobbyists like the petrol industry and every industry that carries passenger / freight that feels this will undermine their business plan & profitability.

lots more track changes (for fast routes) changes towns & villages that will feel skirted & ignored just like any big road project bypass, that's a lot of provincial mayoral upset & costly hold ups.

Eventual creeping privatisation? likely, again with other countries who see their old infrastructure absorbed (whatever the reality) are a point for disgruntled folk to tear apart.

Cheap? depends on which country you are in, the pay / standard of living in terms of access & affordability.

Cheap also depends on the cost between a ticket for one person, versus buying tickets for a whole family & your own timetable, luggage choices / restrictions, etc.
This plan was pushed through in my area (ripping up track to lay down concrete for a busway) its far cheaper / convenient to take a petrol car with multiple occupants into cambridge than buy multiple tickets, even more so in an EV (logically) & you still have to hang out in freezing cold midwinter, get a vehicle to the hubs, pay for parking (this changed again recently after massive drop off of footfall)
Not to mention grand scale buildings at the city end & a portacabin & bus shelter at the other, governments will complain of scraps from the table.

Commuter hubs & wastelands, in the countryside you still need a car to get to access an apparent train utopia, you also create potential for more flocking to the linked cities & leaving the towns along the route empty except as commuter corridors of housing.
If homeworking why do we need to commute on a train?

A co-joined mass transit faces many logistical problems & political posturing before, during & after the build. ..more problems of course if their is a relationship break up potential or acted on as individual countries who are ALSO supposedly free to leave, unhindered.

If we increase the uptake of affordable EV (not necessarily cars, but cars are a big business with "holds" in place for progress, even in germany, their arrogance shown by profit to their shareholders by "fixing" pollution ..companies that should have been taken down hard but weren't because government interests.

Hard to believe in any form of permanently cheap travel utopia getting off the ground when govts won't let any lesser forms of travel blossom without big corporate identities taking a chunk & giving a manilla chunk furtively.

Expand the system to the scale envisaged you have delays due to processing, new terrorism disruption potential, fortification ..blah blah blah ..more opportunities for privatised companies (G4S for example) & the alleged efficiencies it brings (bumping utopian travel costs up) ..just another cash generator & PPI trap for many forced to take on projects (like hospitals in the UK nowadays & SCHOOLS)

Not what we want to hear but bloody credible negative outcome I'm afraid.

[Mr Gus]

Fact Billi, if you think anything less then you don't know me or didn't read it properly to be honest.
(though 3.30 in the morning is not great for a clear head)

Getting train infrastructure sorted as a grand european plan = expensive.

HS2 has left other industries & suppliers empty handed (wood for instance) & prices through the roof.
A europe wide mega project does far more than that meaning more shortages or environmental concerns as to forest cover disappearing at the behest of the union.
Decarbonising must be done beyond a mere operating level, but in build too (first thing naysayers attack)
Polands border problem is an EU problem as it is an act of aggression using migrants risking further fracturing of the "union"

Fracturing union is a strength to Russia & a couple of other disruptors, Polands rumbling leanings are anti EU, affecting any action required, any mega project hinging upon co-operation & timeframe to update & create a fast working result requires full involvement & investment whilst dealing with everything else on its plate any given day, something that poland COULD use as financial leverage to stay in & quiet(er)

The EU always has had & always will have ego's pulling & pushing their own agenda (look at the UKs pushy relationship & demands, & more so now we've left, stupidity, arm flexing threats & punishment very visible, making deals for compliance & increased costs a certainty, the timescale to upgrade & prove its worth is ammunition aplenty for neersayers & lobbyists like the petrol industry and every industry that carries passenger / freight that feels this will undermine their business plan & profitability.

lots more track changes (for fast routes) changes towns & villages that will feel skirted & ignored just like any big road project bypass, that's a lot of provincial mayoral upset & costly hold ups.

Eventual creeping privatisation? likely, again with other countries who see their old infrastructure absorbed (whatever the reality) are a point for disgruntled folk to tear apart.

Cheap? depends on which country you are in, the pay / standard of living in terms of access & affordability.

Cheap also depends on the cost between a ticket for one person, versus buying tickets for a whole family & your own timetable, luggage choices / restrictions, etc.
This plan was pushed through in my area (ripping up track to lay down concrete for a busway) its far cheaper / convenient to take a petrol car with multiple occupants into cambridge than buy multiple tickets, even more so in an EV (logically) & you still have to hang out in freezing cold midwinter, get a vehicle to the hubs, pay for parking (this changed again recently after massive drop off of footfall)
Not to mention grand scale buildings at the city end & a portacabin & bus shelter at the other, governments will complain of scraps from the table.

Anyone who ever moaned about the type of people you meet in a wetherspoons isn't really cut out for the mixed transit experience.

Commuter hubs & wastelands, in the countryside you still need a car to get to access an apparent train utopia, you also create potential for more flocking to the linked cities & leaving the towns along the route empty except as commuter corridors of housing.
If homeworking why do we need to commute on a train?

A co-joined mass transit faces many logistical problems & political posturing before, during & after the build. ..more problems of course if their is a relationship break up potential or acted on as individual countries who are ALSO supposedly free to leave, unhindered.

If we increase the uptake of affordable EV (not necessarily cars, but cars are a big business with "holds" in place for progress, even in germany, their arrogance shown by profit to their shareholders by "fixing" pollution ..companies that should have been taken down hard but weren't because government interests.

Trickledown for affordable EV's is on the never never, in the meantime folk (single mother 4 kids) kicked out of London to the countryside because it costs less for council to do that, now needs housing, associated assistance,..was struggling before, now NEEDS (genuinely) a driving license & a car (for 5 minimum) as well.

Trickledown for EV's is slow, covid costs are tearing goodwill apart & upping public defecits to be clawed back both during & after, affordable is determined by incomings & outgoings, EV / ice car share (hire by the hour) is a rare thing outside the cities, seen one in 4 years.

Even scooter schemes know you stick the rental vehicle in busy built up areas (profit not change, or well marketed profit)

Hard to believe in any form of permanently cheap travel utopia getting off the ground when govts won't let any lesser forms of travel blossom without big corporate identities taking a chunk & giving a manilla chunk furtively.

Expand the system to the scale envisaged you have delays due to processing, new terrorism disruption potential, fortification ..blah blah blah ..more opportunities for privatised companies (G4S for example) & the alleged efficiencies it brings (bumping utopian travel costs up) ..just another cash generator & PPI trap for many forced to take on projects (like hospitals in the UK nowadays & SCHOOLS)

Not what we want to hear but bloody credible negative outcome I'm afraid.

[Mr Gus]

oh yeah, I forgot, saw yet another piece this morning about Polands "reported" pollution standing within Europe, making it ripe for EU decarbonisation money plan, but a bad investment given border agitation courtesy of Russian based plans of disruption.
As it appeared to pop up randomly in a dubious google feed I didn't read too much into its headline of "Polish city records worst air pollution in the world as winter smog descends" from a site called notesfrompoland.com (as I do not know how credible it is as a site to give it the benefit of the doubt) citing it to be ahead of Lahore & New Delhi in terms of pollution at time of reporting (15th dec 2021)

But it is pivotal for planned change based on statistical results opined & pushed for by other union members driven by leading members.

Here's a different link (it has improved some elements over time)
https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/co ... ets/poland

Hard to shake a reputation (like GB STILL has echoing around as the old "dirty man of europe")

[billi]

Fact Billi, if you think anything less then you don't know me or didn't read it properly to be honest.
(though 3.30 in the morning is not great for a clear head)

Getting train infrastructure sorted as a grand european plan = expensive.

See ! That is the´he beauty of a train at 3.30 in the evening

&

is that Krypto language ?

The EU always has had & always will have ego's pulling & pushing their own agenda (look at the UKs pushy relationship & demands, & more so now we've left, stupidity, arm flexing threats & punishment very visible, making deals for compliance & increased costs a certainty, the timescale to upgrade & prove its worth is ammunition aplenty for neersayers & lobbyists like the petrol industry and every industry that carries passenger / freight that feels this will undermine their business plan & profitability.

Are you able to come to a point ?

Getting train infrastructure sorted as a grand european plan = expensive.

The history of rail transport in Ireland began only a decade later than in Great Britain. By its peak in 1920, Ireland had 5,500 route kilometers. The current status is less than half that amount

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/324641

so , again what is your point ?

Me personally thinks it is a step forward to say adieu to each individual car , and walk forward to carsharing and puplic transport to reduce emmissions and capital investment for each


Billi

[Mr Gus]

Ok Billi, whatever.

[billi]

Ok Billi, whatever.

thats your conclusion ? .... What ever ? about an European transport network ?

[Ken]

In the UK we have reopened 2 lines in the last yr? and pre Covid the railways were busier than they have ever been. Our East coast line is at full capacity and hence HS2. The only thing that is better? about EU lines is that the taxpayer is willing to subsize them and the UK is not.

[billi]

guess those numbers are simple to understand makes sense to me to move away from the individual car transport solution and concentrate on a good network of public transport ideas to reduce the amount of cars