New risks this winter?

[Oldgreybeard]

Just seen this news article from South Yorkshire Fire and Rescue, seems there may be a fairly widespread risk from makeshift heating arrangements because of the high energy prices: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-63473052

Firefighters are warning people not to use makeshift methods to heat their homes amid energy price rises.

South Yorkshire Fire and Rescue (SYFR) said it had dealt with recent incidents where residents had resorted to burning "inappropriate and potentially toxic materials to warm their homes".

One case saw a person suffer carbon monoxide poisoning after burning coal in a tin bucket in their living room.

The brigade called the recent pattern of unsafe heating "concerning".

[Tinbum]

I watched about a minute of a programme a day or two ago about saving energy/money and had to turn the TV off before I hurled something at it, as much of the content was complete crap. Seems no one bothers to verify anything now.

Yes I saw one as well and just thought this is going to cause problems. The TV programs should be held liable. A typical example was bleeding radiators. Nothing about re pressurising the system afterwards.

[SafetyThird]

Just had our chimneys swept a couple of weeks ago, we book them a year in advance each year, and I was chatting to the lass that does them. Apparently their phone has been ringing off the hook for months with people trying to get unused chimneys cleaned in time for the winter. I expect there'll be quite a few chimney fires coming up over the heating season.

[Oldgreybeard]

Looks like the risks from people using plug in electric heaters has been identified already: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63627903

People are being alerted to the fire risks of unsafe use of electric heaters as they try to keep down costs during the winter.

The popularity of portable machines to heat a single room has increased as energy bills have soared.

But charity Electrical Safety First has highlighted the dangers of leaving the heaters unattended, on unstable surfaces, or when used to dry clothes.

Firefighters described shocking cases, some of which have led to deaths.

Although electric heaters were not inherently dangerous, the charity said, they could cause devastating fires if not used with care. Fan heaters posed a greater risk in the home, it said.

"Heating your home should never come at the expense of your own safety. While portable heaters can be useful to heat a small space, they can pose a real risk to your home and your life if mistakes are made when using them," said Lesley Rudd, chief executive of Electrical Safety First.

"With the significant number of people set to turn to these appliances this winter, it is vital we use them safely."

What that article doesn't say is that there are a lot of really poorly made electric heaters for sale from places like Amazon and ebay. Neither of those companies properly polices the electrical safety of the goods they sell, and I'm absolutely certain that thousands of potentially unsafe electric heaters will end up being used by people unaware that any safety markings (CE, UKCA etc) will almost certainly be fake.

[nowty]

What it also does not say which maybe of been the case is that a double socket is only rated to 13A across both sockets, so you cannot plug in two 13A heaters into the same double socket.

[Oldgreybeard]

What it also does not say which maybe of been the case is that a double socket is only rated to 13A across both sockets, so you cannot plug in two 13A heaters into the same double socket.

Not sure that's right, is it?

The maximum continuous rating is 10A per socket (13A is the peak short duration rating) and the circuit total rating is either 30A if fused or 32A if protected with an MCB or RCBO, unless it's a radial, when the rating will be either 16A (15A if fused) or 20A. I've not seen anything to suggest that a twin gang outlet has a lower rating than the sum of the two socket ratings, although two plugs drawing 10A for hours are going to get a bit warm, anyway. There's nothing in the wiring regs about this, AFAICS from a quick look through them.

Only time I've seen a 13A maximum spread across more than one outlet is for the triple gang after market conversion sockets. They usually have a 13A fuse fitted.

Lots of electric heaters are sold that exceed the 10A continuous load rating of a 13A outlet, though.

[Oldgreybeard]

Just thought I'd better double check the facts for BS EN 1363 plugs and sockets to be sure, so dug out an old (2003) copy of the standard. Not what I thought, TBH. The standard states that testing of double gang, non-fused, outlets shall be conducted with a load of 14A from each socket, 28A in total, using special test plugs (that don't have internal fuses) for at least four hours and not more than 8 hours. The measured temperature rise shall not be greater than 52K (seems high to me - means the socket could be around 72°C with a 20°C room temperature!).

It looks as if the testing method in the standard is designed to sidestep the real issue with 13A sockets, which is the plug overheating. Anything over 10A for prolonged periods tends to make plugs get a bit toasty.

[Tinbum]

The old 13A plugs are the best. Ive also found the switches fail even in quality sockets.

[nowty]

Just thought I'd better double check the facts for BS EN 1363 plugs and sockets to be sure, so dug out an old (2003) copy of the standard. Not what I thought, TBH. The standard states that testing of double gang, non-fused, outlets shall be conducted with a load of 14A from each socket, 28A in total, using special test plugs (that don't have internal fuses) for at least four hours and not more than 8 hours. The measured temperature rise shall not be greater than 52K (seems high to me - means the socket could be around 72°C with a 20°C room temperature!).

It looks as if the testing method in the standard is designed to sidestep the real issue with 13A sockets, which is the plug overheating. Anything over 10A for prolonged periods tends to make plugs get a bit toasty.

I think we might be both partly wrong.

Seems single plugs and sockets are rated 14A but a double socket is rated at 20A so the test is 14A on one plug and 6A on the other plug. Seen it several places now.

https://engx.theiet.org/f/wiring-and-re ... mp-sockets

[Oldgreybeard]

The old 13A plugs are the best. Ive also found the switches fail even in quality sockets.

I agree, some of the plug problems go back to the time when they added the plastic safety shrouds, as now the pins are really thin inside the plastic. Combined with the heat from the fuse this does seem to make plugs run a bit warmer when used with high current appliances.

The standard is supposed to require the switch and socket to withstand 5,000 cycles, but the real problem with the switches seems to be mechanical, not unusual to find one stick, or just flop around doing nothing. I suspect many are never properly tested to the standard, TBH, as no one seems to police this stuff. Watched a video recently where ordinary twin and earth cable was being inspected and tested. They reckoned around 20% of all cable sold in the UK was fake and potentially unsafe. Nobody seems set up to check this stuff, though, or take action against people selling it.