Smart meters being remotely turned off

[John_S]

.....suppliers are now using the remote disconnection capability on tens of thousands of consumers.....

I am not sure that it is correct to say that converting a meter to prepayment is the same as disconnecting it.

The benefits system is there to protect against poverty and the prepayment system is there to protect against the 'won't pays'. No government should be attempting to off load the short comings of the benefits system, of which there are plenty, onto energy suppliers. As stated before, I do not consider it correct that prepayment charges are more expensive.

[Oldgreybeard]

.....suppliers are now using the remote disconnection capability on tens of thousands of consumers.....

I am not sure that it is correct to say that converting a meter to prepayment is the same as disconnecting it.

The benefits system is there to protect against poverty and the prepayment system is there to protect against the 'won't pays'. No government should be attempting to off load the short comings of the benefits system, of which there are plenty, onto energy suppliers. As stated before, I do not consider it correct that prepayment charges are more expensive.

OK, a bit OTT on my part, but the numbers in the BBC article plus the reports that people aren't being told they've been switched to prepayment, together with the report that some have been disconnected for long periods, does raise the question as to whether this would have happened had they had a conventional meter.

My guess (and I can't find anything to prove this) is that the process of getting a warrant to disconnect someone probably provides a fair degree of checking to see whether doing so would cause excessive hardship or even a risk to life. That independent back stop check has been removed for those with smart meters, so suppliers are now free to switch people to prepayment (which might well result in inadvertent disconnection if the consumer doesn't know about it) or even just disconnect the supply for non-payment, without any independent checks.

It seems to me that the only fair way to handle this is for the protection against disconnection, either accidentally by remote switching to prepayment without notice, or by deliberate action by the supplier, should be the same irrespective of the type of meter fitted. If suppliers need a warrant to disconnect someone, or change their meter to prepayment, if they don't have a smart meter then they should also need one, or go through an equivalent independent safeguarding process, for those with smart meters.

FWIW, I doubt that my MiL could cope if her smart meter was switched to prepayment. She's registered blind and struggles a bit with technology. Whether she could work out how to pay for a top up and access her meter to get it to run again is doubtful.

[chris_n]

An alternative view.
Pre payment rates are less than direct debit rates in most areas for electricity only customers, very similar for dual fuel under the latest government cap. A warrant is not a necessity to replace a conventional electricity meter if either the customer agrees or it is a meter in a communal area or an external meter cupboard. Gas meter changes do require entry to the property to purge the pipework safely. The cost of the warrant (£150) is added to the existing debt where applicable.
While I'm sure some mistakes will have been made (as they were with warrants) I suspect most of the customers affected have not engaged with their supplier as the were in debt. Kelly who was quoted in the BBC article already had a £1k debt. The reporting is skewed as is very often the case to suit the narrative, perhaps they meant the rates were higher because there is a debt to repay so your £10 doesn't buy as much electricity.

[Mr Gus]

You can FOIL foam insulate the big old leaky hole in the wall, i'd recommend folk line out all aspects of the void & use extra foil tape, ..the good stuff.
"it's all about the energy economy & practical savings by simple DIY measures, innit" *cough*

This is when skip diving provides the goods

..Unless it is a job Desp is on.

[Stinsy]

You can FOIL foam insulate the big old leaky hole in the wall, i'd recommend folk line out all aspects of the void & use extra foil tape, ..the good stuff.
"it's all about the energy economy & practical savings by simple DIY measures, innit" *cough*

This is when skip diving provides the goods

..Unless it is a job Desp is on.

?

[Oldgreybeard]

You can FOIL foam insulate the big old leaky hole in the wall, i'd recommend folk line out all aspects of the void & use extra foil tape, ..the good stuff.
"it's all about the energy economy & practical savings by simple DIY measures, innit" *cough*

This is when skip diving provides the goods

..Unless it is a job Desp is on.

?

I think that may be a slightly obscure reference to creating a foil Faraday cage around the meter location to try and block any signal, perhaps?

[Mr Gus]

Yes, indeed.

However if it stymies radio signal then that is an "unfortunate" side effect of modern insulation & the big old cold spot otherwise affecting energy usage to heat the home, & any energy company complainant needs to remember the meter is "theirs" the void in the wall is "ours", & in the attempt to reduce bills, green up the planet etc the govt approves of insulation to get there, ergo.

[Stinsy]

Yes, indeed.

However if it stymies radio signal then that is an "unfortunate" side effect of modern insulation & the big old cold spot otherwise affecting energy usage to heat the home, & any energy company complainant needs to remember the meter is "theirs" the void in the wall is "ours", & in the attempt to reduce bills, green up the planet etc the govt approves of insulation to get there, ergo.

So if I the government threaten to use the switch within the smart meter to switch people off when the going gets tough then if I take the big foil that is supposed to be for the xmas turkey and wrap it thoroughly around my smart meter then my smart meter wont receive the signal telling it ti turn off.

I can only imagine the scenes if they had rolling blackouts where smart meter customers were disconnected and mechanical meter customers were unaffected...

[Mr Gus]

Now whilst I know you're joking, from a legal standpoint mere tin-foil would likely be seen as deliberately obstructive to the natute of rhe units operation, it has pretty much bugger all insulation value on its own if scrutinised.

Whereas actually insulating & sealing the void using recognised kit used elsewher in the building industry could be put across as yet another design problem that "smart" meters have failed to account for because they are still pish a decade down the road, & therefore "not the homeowner's problem" who should not suffer the design flaws.

In terms of bad apples keeping ights on etc, just as people speed, double yellow park, so you will have people avoiding the black outs by hook & crook.

We don't have a smart meter, we are prepared & willing partic but my reason for the above post reminder *again* is because the power companies got smart meters through on a set of false promises which is why many still are wary of them.

& if the power companies don't play fair (wich they don't on multiple levels) then screw them back till they behave & fine them for causing a bigger resistance based on pulling the equivalent of a politicians pledge u-turn.

If it means pulling a breaker to participate then so be it, ...no worse than earth day practise of "everything off" which we did plenty of times in canadian winters.

[Oldgreybeard]

We don't have a smart meter, we are prepared & willing partic but my reason for the above post reminder *again* is because the power companies got smart meters through on a set of false promises which is why many still are wary of them.

& if the power companies don't play fair (wich they don't on multiple levels) then screw them back till they behave & fine them for causing a bigger resistance based on pulling the equivalent of a politicians pledge u-turn.

I'm coming around to the same view, after being annoyed for some time that we couldn't have a working smart meter. I wanted one to get access to some of the very good value tariffs, but the more I read about some of the downsides of the things the more I'm inclined to think we're better not having one.

Economy 7 happens to work extremely well for us, anyway. The fixed 7 hour off-peak period makes managing loads easier than with a shorter window, the meter is very easy to read and the display shows both the peak and off-peak readings so it's very easy to track usage in each period without needing an app, internet connectivity or whatever. My main concern is that the suppliers may choose to kill off E7 at some future date.